[07azhhr]

Well heres the deal, as i was researching & reading threads on getting a new head unit, the 80PRS by Pioneer seems like a good choice. As i was reading thru a few threads, alot of people kept mentioning this being a good choice if u wanna go full active & thats where i asked this question on what that exactly means.

Now since people claim that this setup sounds so much better & are getting better sound out of the same speakers is whats making me think about doing the same, especially since i have not purchased the in-car speakers yet. The things that are still rattling my brain is that this is the first time ive ever heard of people only running front speakers calling it there front sound stage & reffering to the rear speakers as rear fill. See for me & my old school thinking, that rear fill acts like suround sound just like i have in my living room, & when i turn that on, movies sound so much better & makes them better to watch!

BUT to be totaly honest, ive never been totaly happy with my in-car sound & this brings me back to confusion & makes me wanna give this a go since this would change what speakers i buy. I think ill probably buy the 80PRS reguardless of my decision so ill have the option of going active later on as im still leaning towards the basic setup that im used to.

There is a HUGE difference between movies ad music. Movies are recorded in surround sound with some being recorded in as much as 7 or 9 channels now. Atleast 7 but I would not put it past them to start moving on to 9 if they have not already. For music it is generally recorded in 2 channel stereo.

This means that for movies you have actual dedicated sounds that are ment to come out of only certain speaker locations to give you the desired sound effects.

For music, this means that even though you have rear speakers hooked up, that they are playing the same sound as the front speakers of the same side of the enviroment that you are listening to it in. For example the right rear is receiving and reproducing the same sounds that the front right speaker is receiving and reproducing.

This is why many do not recommend rear fill as it will pull your front stage to the rear of you even though that is not what the artist intended. Now if you are going to set up a sytem that will play DVD's then you may want to go with a surround sound setup. But seeing that you are looking at the 80prs I am gathering that this is not the case.

 

[SeniorXJ]

I dont wanna debate surround sound VS car audio sound cause like i said, it was just an analogy reguardless if it was a good analogy or not.

A better debate is one that alot of Jeep Cherokee XJ owners do when they mod the doors to be removable for rock crawling such as how my jeep is built, & thats moving the rear sound bar foward to just above there heads since your now loosing ur door speakers. The Jeep Cherokee XJ, (not to be confused with the grand cherokee), has a bar going across the rear of the roof & that is where the rear speakers are mounted slightly aimed towards the front. So lets say if i were to move it foward to, lets say just behind my head, what would u guys say about this setup??

 

[slade1274]

Most responses you get here regarding speakers behind you will be one of two views- complete garbage or for subtle reinforcement only..... Never as a primary sound source.

Think going to a concert or jazz club and turning your back to the stage for the whole show.

 

[jpdnkstr]

I currently own the 80 prs, memphis big belle and m3 12" subs, just purchased 4 polk mm571's. I am thinking about returning the coax, and purchasing components for front only? Any suggestions on seperates would be greatly appreciated(I am considering polkmm6501) as I like their sound. Sorry if this is in the wrong thread, this forum is a little overwhelming to me. Oh yeah, my stock speaker size is 5x7, but I believe I could fit a 6 3/4 with slight modification(2001 ford explorer) thanks again.

 

[SeniorXJ]

Most responses you get here regarding speakers behind you will be one of two views- complete garbage or for subtle reinforcement only..... Never as a primary sound source.

Think going to a concert or jazz club and turning your back to the stage for the whole show.

Let me say this in another way, the sound bar would be ONE foot above ur head & loaded with 2 coaxials so i dont think this can be concidered rear fill anymore as the speakers in the door are 3x as far from u as what im suggesting...

 

[slade1274]

Exactly.... My response addresses exactly that. You aren't looking for ideal results with those constraints so it doesn't really matter- clean power and solid components that fit the location.

 

[07azhhr]

Let me say this in another way, the sound bar would be ONE foot above ur head & loaded with 2 coaxials so i dont think this can be concidered rear fill anymore as the speakers in the door are 3x as far from u as what im suggesting...

It is still going to interfer with the stage being in front of you if they are not kept extremely low in output. But it really sounds like you do not care about the location of or the quality of the sound so you should just do it. You will not find many on here that are going to side with you on this though so just do it and see if it works for you. Continuing to discuss it here is just going to go around in circles.

 

[SeniorXJ]

It is still going to interfer with the stage being in front of you if they are not kept extremely low in output. But it really sounds like you do not care about the location of or the quality of the sound so you should just do it. You will not find many on here that are going to side with you on this though so just do it and see if it works for you. Continuing to discuss it here is just going to go around in circles.

To say that i dont care about sound quality is obsurd or i wouldnt be on this forum asking questions & trying to understand all these new things.

Let me paint u a picture of where i come from & we'll go from there...
A month before my 16th bday i spent $2,300 bucks on a system in a car that was worth maybe a hundred bucks but that didnt matter cause all that did matter was people hearing me coming from a 1/4 mile away!! Back then all music was made on cassetts, there were no CDs cell phones or ipods, they didnt make subs with 50lb magnets & 3 to 4 inches of excursion. If u wanted more bass, u added more subs & if u wanted to blare ur heavy metal music, u put speakers wherever u could fit them including ripping the back seats out in exchange for 2 15" subs & a couple sets of 6x9s!!

Today im 35 & ive had a system in every vehicle ive ever owned & the last time i put a system together was about 7 years ago in the same model jeep as i have now & even that had 2 sets of components upfront, 2 sets of coaxials in the rear doors & in the roofs soundbar, & a single kicker sub. Please pardon me if i think the whole frontstage & no rear speakers is a bit much for me to picture & its the reason i have more then a few questions & as they get answered i have ideas running thru my head & so i ask about those as well. I am in no way trying to argue the concept of a good frontstage, what i am trying to do is have an inteligent conversation about the peramiters of a frontstage & no rear speakers. What im starting to hear now is that i should run front speakers only or dont do a system at all & thats a bit harsh to swallow.

Hopefully this is a good explenation of where im coming from, my confusion, my many questions, & will lead to a good understanding of putting together a better system then all my previouse ones which is actually my overall goal!!

 

[07azhhr]

We are not saying DON't run rear at all just that if you want an accurate sounding stage then the rears need to be kept down in volumn and used soley as rearfill. But with all things that have been suggested you say NO WAY and this is what I am trying to do. We have heard you but you do not seem to be listening with open ears to us.

Believe me I understand your background story as I am older then you and have also had some type of system in every single car I have owned since I was 16 as well. I used to think you had to run as many speakers and as much wattage as possible but after listening to people on this site my eyes were opened up quite a bit.

When I joined here last year I had never been without speakers in the rear. Never would I have imagined how good a system could sound without them. Infact my first thread on here was asking what components to get to run for both front and rear. The responses were much the same but were stated as "you DON'T want that, what you want is this" blah blah blah. I wanted to reach thru the computer and sock that guy lol. But you know what? He was correct.

It took me a while to try no rears but once I did I never missed them. I even then disconnected my GF's rear speakers and never told her just to see if she would mention anthing. She never did. About 6 months went by before I mentioned having disconnected them and she had never noticed ever.

I would highly suggest trying it. But seriously if you want our advice then be willing to listen to it since it seems that most every time someone suggests something you come back with a different REASON why you NEED them. That is what is called arguing.

 

[SeniorXJ]

We are not saying DON't run rear at all just that if you want an accurate sounding stage then the rears need to be kept down in volumn and used soley as rearfill. But with all things that have been suggested you say NO WAY and this is what I am trying to do. We have heard you but you do not seem to be listening with open ears to us.

Believe me I understand your background story as I am older then you and have also had some type of system in every single car I have owned since I was 16 as well. I used to think you had to run as many speakers and as much wattage as possible but after listening to people on this site my eyes were opened up quite a bit.

When I joined here last year I had never been without speakers in the rear. Never would I have imagined how good a system could sound without them. Infact my first thread on here was asking what components to get to run for both front and rear. The responses were much the same but were stated as "you DON'T want that, what you want is this" blah blah blah. I wanted to reach thru the computer and sock that guy lol. But you know what? He was correct.

It took me a while to try no rears but once I did I never missed them. I even then disconnected my GF's rear speakers and never told her just to see if she would mention anthing. She never did. About 6 months went by before I mentioned having disconnected them and she had never noticed ever.

I would highly suggest trying it. But seriously if you want our advice then be willing to listen to it since it seems that most every time someone suggests something you come back with a different REASON why you NEED them. That is what is called arguing.

After re-reading thru the thread, i agree as ive been a bit thick headed & im sorry for coming across that way & am also thankfull that u took the time to tell me this in a polite way! Its not that im not listening with an open mind, its just that its hard to picture this & since i havent bought my in-car speakers yet, im now in a delema to either spend $300 on front components & rear coaxials, OR spend the whole $300 on components for the front.

I think my biggest quagmire here is that i would want to run a frontstage system active, but id wanna get more then just a component set & run 3-way components adding in a mid-range or even run a set of coaxials ontop of a component set. I just cant picture having a single set of components as my entire in-car setup & being loud enough!

 

[SeniorXJ]

So would i be able to run a 3-way component system fully active using the 80PRS deck & my 4-channel Lanzar amps??

A 3-way component system within my budget:
WoofersEtc.com - 165A3 - Focal 6.5" + 4" Access 3-Way Component Speakers

-Edit: just did a bunch of reading on this & it appears to be a bit more complicated to run 3-way components active as they require added tuning, BUT, those that have successfully done so have said it is well worth the troubles!!
-Warning, another question is coming: since this would add yet another degree of dificulty, can i run a 3-way component set in a passive system using only 2 out of the 4 channel amp??

 

[Golden Ear]

You cannot run a fully active 3 way setup with the 80prs because it doesn't have enough outputs. For that reason I have recently purchased the 99prs.
To your last question the answer is yes, you can run 3 way PASSIVE off of 2 channels.

 

[07azhhr]

It can be done in a hybrid passive/active setup if you can couple the 6.5's and the 4's off the mid out of the 80. Then run passives between them and use the HU to do the x-over for the 6.5's hi-pass and the 4's low-pass. Then the tweeters could be run off the other 2 channels of your amp and the hi outs on the 80. The concern here is time alignment since these two speakers are playing in the ranges that t/a matters. So you would want to get the physical distances from both the 6.5 and the 4 to be the same distance to your head.

I forgot to mention that I would suggest starting bith the front stage. Focus the $300 on that. 2- way or 3-way, pre made sets or pick and match drivers doesn't matter, you can be successful with any combo and can equally fail just the same. But focus on a good install with whatever you get. If amp channels/wattge needs are are not met then try to give some to that as well. Or atleast plan for it.

If in the end you still feel like you need more you can try various options. But a good install and good level and phase matching can go along way to making you happy with the sound even with few speakers. For example I am running 3 way in my car but 2 way in my girls car, both running the 80prs hu. Hers is even still having to use passives for the front speakers so no seperate t/a for the front. BUT since I mounted the tweeters in the pillars at the same distance to the drivers ears as the mids in the doors I actually do not really need the t/a between the mids and tweets. The install here allows for this. In many cars this is not physically posible between these two spots but for this car it was. In the end I am very satisfied with the sound quality and volumn of both vehicles. They both can get plenty loud and neither is running over 700 watts for the whole system. Not to mention but with all the level matching of channels I would doubt that I even can reach to 500w for mine or 300w for hers.