[BillC]

Yeah I got that part, but its a wierd thing how I have some control via ai-net head unit but no presets or sub control.

 

[brusty]

Hey PXA-h800 experts, I'd love your advice here.

Had the MS-8 for the better part of two years, and it was great for the first six months, and then things started burning out/behaving inconsistently (blame it on using the onboard amps for stage power for most of that time in a very ill-conceived and constrained install space).

Anyhow, did some reading (including most of this very extensive thread) and ended up pulling the trigger on the PXA-h800 and the RUX-c800. Very excited to work with a fully functioning device again that'll also give me much more granular control over the sound to let me tinker in peace.

Given your experience, would you advise running 3 way active + sub in the front, or 2 way active (midrange and tweeter passively crossed) + rear + sub?

Here's a picture of my front door speaker setup.



The 6.5" midbass is an NVX XSP65 in the stock spot (knee level). The 3" midrange is an Infinity Kappa Perfect 300m in the gloss top trim of the door, and the tweeter is a JBL P26t in the sail panel.

The rear speakers are JBL P662 coaxials, again in the stock spot.

Sub duties are handled by a 15" Acoustic Elegance SBP15 run infinite baffle and fired into the cabin through a grill I fashioned behind the armrest of the rear seat. (This is a 2011 Hyundai Sonata, btw.)

Here's my thinking at present. When I was running the MS-8's autotune with a true 2 way front setup (with the original dash speakers + door speakers, and later with just tweeters and midbasses), the image was stable and rock center in the middle of the dash. Which of course was amazing and engaging to listen to. Now with the dedicated midrange in the picture, overall sonic resolution is improved, but with the relatively minimal path difference between mid and tweet, the soundstage is no longer pinpoint accuracy and moves depending on where you look, even with the driver's position-biased tune.

I know localization cues are frequency dependent, so referencing the midranges rather than tweets for setting distance to seating positions post autotune might clear that image somewhat with the Alpine.

Running 3 way active requires me to run another set of wires into the doors, but consider that a negligible factor. Also obviously don't care about not utilizing the P662s as they're basically the weak sonic point of the system now.

I'm currently leaning toward running the wires and going full 3 way active. The passive crossover between mid and tweet was from the original JBL P660c component set the P26t tweeters came from, and tbh I don't even know where it's crossed or at what slope. There don't seem to be any negative sonic artifacts from the crossover, but then again, don't know what I'm missing if I've never heard active 3 way in this setup, right? And I might upgrade the tweeter in the future if I went active...

Really I'm asking: Are the surround processing capabilities provided by Dolby Pro Logic II or Euphony worth NOT going 3 way active front and just sticking with the currently passively crossed setup, even if that means tweaking delay for the mid-tweeter combo and still possibly coming up short of a holographic soundstage?

Thanks for reading all of this, and thanks for your thought and replies! This forum has been invaluable to me in the past couple years, even if my wallet sometimes begs to differ.

 

[drop1]

Honest question . The helix dsp pro isn't that much more money than the alpine unit and can run circles around it.
Unless you are running an alpine head unit why would anyone can consider the alpine dsp?
This post isn't meant to be inflammatory in any way.
I got a quote on the helix dsp pro for a little over $1000.

Personally I'm running a jl twk but I paid $250 New in the box for it from a brick and mortar store.
I can understand the cost/effect of my choice but if you're paying $700 for a dsp it seems the jump to the helix isn't that extreme.

 

[jnchantler]

Honest question . The helix dsp pro isn't that much more money than the alpine unit and can run circles around it.

Unless you are running an alpine head unit why would anyone can consider the alpine dsp?

This post isn't meant to be inflammatory in any way.

I got a quote on the helix dsp pro for a little over $1000.



Personally I'm running a jl twk but I paid $250 New in the box for it from a brick and mortar store.

I can understand the cost/effect of my choice but if you're paying $700 for a dsp it seems the jump to the helix isn't that extreme.

I don't think The Helix wasn't around when I bought mine, at least it didn't have a controller like the Alpine does. Plus I was working Saturdays at a shop and got the Alpine for cost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[brusty]

Honest question . The helix dsp pro isn't that much more money than the alpine unit and can run circles around it.
Unless you are running an alpine head unit why would anyone can consider the alpine dsp?
This post isn't meant to be inflammatory in any way.
I got a quote on the helix dsp pro for a little over $1000.

Personally I'm running a jl twk but I paid $250 New in the box for it from a brick and mortar store.
I can understand the cost/effect of my choice but if you're paying $700 for a dsp it seems the jump to the helix isn't that extreme.

Run circles, perhaps, but they're running different races in my mind. The DSP Pro sounds like an amazing piece of equipment from everything I've read, but I still want a little more convenience compared to the boilerplate RTA I'd have to do off the bat with it.

Marginally cost, but also the tradeoffs between complexity and what I want to accomplish.

Assuming you bring this up in part because the Helix can output 10 channels vs the Alpine's 8.

First, price. I dropped $750 on the Alpine DSP AND controller to make cycling between presets and doing basic on the go adjustment/tuning doable. If you're factoring ~$1,000 for the Helix DSP Pro, still gotta drop ~$400 for the Helix Director to be able to cycle between presets in the car or easily tune. If I want to have some degree of RTA relative to the software, gotta pick up a USB mic, and even if I'm not springing for their official ~$400 add-on kit, we're sitting at twice the price I paid for everything.

Maybe more significantly in the comparison and relative to my question, AFAIK, there's no mixing from a 2 channel source to a simulated surround with the DSP Pro. No Logic 7 as on the MS-8, no Dolby Pro Logic II or Euphony as on the PXA-h800.

To be frank, if the rear speakers can't serve as fill to give a sense of ambiance beyond what I'd be able to accomplish with a regular old head unit by fading more toward the front, I don't want them there at all - I'd be paying substantially more for less convincing fundamental functionality, not to mention I'd need to pick up another amp to power the two speakers currently unaccounted for, adding to cost. No need to reproduce what's in the front behind me or manually pass certain frequencies to try and achieve ambient effect. My level of tinkering on the go is more along the lines of optimizing for seating positions and adjusting response to bring out highlights in certain tracks more prominently (i.e. basic frequency response adjustment of the whole system).

Not as much of a factor, but the semi-******** features like RoadEQ do intrigue me, even if many consider them marginally effective or just shut them off. It grinds my gears that I'd pay at least around $100 extra for a mic I'll only intermittently plug in to tune, even if you can argue I didn't use the MS-8 mic headset outside of tuning, and that was obviously factored into its pricetag.

While I'd still appreciate anyone chiming in with experience with Dolby Pro Logic II or Euphony, I'll likely just take the route of running the wires to enable an active 3 way setup. Wiring for the rear fill speakers is already in place, obviously, so I can easily switch between them if I get curious. Passive crossovers can move out of the doors and into the back near the amp if this happens and I end up settling on simulated surround.

Anyone?

 

[james2266]

I have been using the Apline combo for 2 years now or so and it is the best processor I have used to date. I have not had the luxury of having my hands on the Helix Pro but I will say it knocks the socks off the Audison Bit One and Mosconi 6-8 I used previously.

I did have the same thoughts as you have back when I got it and was seriously considering the surround sound avenue. It is the center channel that is the most important to me and certainly not the rear speakers. The only vehicle I have heard that was awesome doing surround was Gary Summer's vehicle. That one was running like 6 amps and 2 processors one of which was the Alpine F1 unit which is like the Helix Pro with surround sound (if I recall).

I would say, go 3 way front and sub like I have done and call it a day. The only way I would use this for surround would be if I went all out and grabbed a 2nd processor and run 3 way active rear as well with the midrange and tweets up high and as far back as possible (like Mr. Summers' ride). That is not something I am financially able to do or really have much desire to do really. I have heard many a 3 way front setup well with this unit and it will more than satisfy most ears including mine

 

[brusty]

I have been using the Apline combo for 2 years now or so and it is the best processor I have used to date. I have not had the luxury of having my hands on the Helix Pro but I will say it knocks the socks off the Audison Bit One and Mosconi 6-8 I used previously.

I did have the same thoughts as you have back when I got it and was seriously considering the surround sound avenue. It is the center channel that is the most important to me and certainly not the rear speakers. The only vehicle I have heard that was awesome doing surround was Gary Summer's vehicle. That one was running like 6 amps and 2 processors one of which was the Alpine F1 unit which is like the Helix Pro with surround sound (if I recall).

I would say, go 3 way front and sub like I have done and call it a day. The only way I would use this for surround would be if I went all out and grabbed a 2nd processor and run 3 way active rear as well with the midrange and tweets up high and as far back as possible (like Mr. Summers' ride). That is not something I am financially able to do or really have much desire to do really. I have heard many a 3 way front setup well with this unit and it will more than satisfy most ears including mine

Perfect - great to hear. Was leaning more and more toward this course of action as I came back to the pros and cons in my mind. Just wanted a prod.

 

[Oteex]

Quick question, hopefully one of you guys can help me out.....

The power connector to the H800 has two blue/white wires coming out of it -- one for the remote turn-on lead, and one output to the amplifier. I cut and extended the leads and wrapped them in Techflex, so now I have no idea which wire is which. Can anyone look at their connector and get back to me?

The connector looks like this (wire side of the connector, as seen looking at the H800)



So which blue/white wire is which? Thanks in advance.

Hello,

I'm new here. I leave in France.
I've buy an alpine PXA-H800 for part.
I whant to test it but i don't have the power lead.
Can you tell me to whom correspond brooches on the grip?
Or can be have you a photo of the grip or we see the position pin

thank you

 

[eviling]

Will this decode logic 7?

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[TryDoingSomethingNew]

"Will this decode logic 7?"

Hi there - no it can't. Logic 7 is a proprietary "encoding" that's not a true discrete codec like DTS or DD, therefore there aren't commercially available processors to support it.

 

[t3sn4f2]

"Will this decode logic 7?"

Hi there - no it can't. Logic 7 is a proprietary "encoding" that's not a true discrete codec like DTS or DD, therefore there aren't commercially available processors to support it.

To add, Logic 7 isn't an encoded audio track that comes with the media. Which needs processor support to decode it, the way DTS or DD does. It is an on the fly upmixer like Dolby PLII which creates a x.1 sound field out of a standard stereo signal. The H800 uses PLII and the JBL MS-8 uses Logic 7.

 

[MitchWolos]

Anyone know about the PCM 3ch mode? I'm curious how it's matrixed?

 

[TryDoingSomethingNew]

Anyone know about the PCM 3ch mode? I'm curious how it's matrixed?

When I had the PXA-H701, it appeared to unfortunately be only L + R, and wasn't a "real" derived center channel. I wanted to use it badly but that obviously pulled the image all over the front.

I had planned to use Pro Logic II as well but in the PXA-H701 the Pro Logic II volume output was WAY too low...probably at least -12dB. And that's with the output level set to +5.

The H800 so far doesn't seem to have that issue. I'm hoping to install my center channel speaker soon and test the Euphony center channel generation. I couldn't find any documentation or information anywhere which is odd.

If I were you I'd make a simple center channel test setup and try it out.

As I recall back in the 90s the custom installs that had a "center channel" weren't done properly and were nearly always a L + R, which I never understood (obviously not concerned with good imaging).

 

[BillC]

Has anyone ever tried running two h800 units in master slave configuration? Similar to hos the old pra-h400 units could be ran?

 

[BillC]

I have a weird question about importing curves into imprint on the h800. We all know how the 9887 imprint units worked, very good imaging, good everything except very light on the bass (for an auto tune setup, not competition) I was curious if you could import the curve, files from an imprint run on the 9887 into the pxa-h800. It just seems like it would give a nice baseline to start tuning from.

also when you create a target curve and run auto tune on the 800, I am guessing it tries to recreate that curve with proper time delay and upfront imaging etc? the manual does not say much about it. do any of you have a good street curve that i could import into the 800? what format does it need to be in? I am just bored today and playing with the auto tune features hahaha.

It almost has me wanting to put my 9887 back in, run it in active mode into the 800 with rca jacks, do an imprint run, and then save the tune it comes up with? just curious if anyone has tried it?obviously i would'nt let it do the ant-eq for a stock head unit, but trick it into believing it is getting an unadultered signal.

 

[EvertonCa]

I have my PXA for almost 5 years now. And I’m having 2 problems. The first I’m not really sure if it is really a pxa problem, but sometimes the balance just goes to the left! And it goes slowly, shifting from the center to the left, stays there sometime and then goes back to the center. This happens in aux (oem input) AND optical input.
The second problem is that everytime I leave the car turned off for a couple of hours, the pxa loses it’s memory. It’s like I’ve disconnected it from the 12+ supply. It’s really annoying!
Anyone having some problem like this? Or knows what to do? There is no alpine assistance here in Brazil.

 

[darryldarryl]

Is it still worth buying the Alpine PXA-H800 or should I go with the Helix DSP2?

 

[hdrugs]

It's higher resolution but i can't really hear it, the h800 to helix

If you can make use of the extra channels and give up tweaking of the controller

 

[nadams5755]

h800: fully tunable via the rux, pl2 if you want a good center channel algorithm (compared to l+r) and a better rear-fill algorithm (vs l-r). it's larger compared to the helix dsps. it's a little long in the tooth but they're still selling them.

helix: i/o module support, arguably the best pc-based dsp software. director is smaller than the rux but not full featured. must use a pc to tune it.

both are quite popular on this side of the country

 

[darryldarryl]

Connected the pxa-h800 successfully, but I have a question. I turned off the subwoofer 2 as I am only using one subwoofer. While subwoofer 2 is off, I noticed that the output got weak using only subwoofer 1 setting. Is this normal or should I use rca y adapters going to the amplifier?