Hybrid is still very popular making top-notch product. I think that Audiofrog has done a great job catering to the main-stream consumer and their installation hardware makes installation much easier. Hybrid is still the way to go if you're willing to do the custom work though.

 

To be blunt.. Its not nearly as good as what people made it out to be and what the price implies. Sorry Hybrid fans.

 

agreed, i have heard 3 or 4 cars using them and they where OK but nothing special considering other offerings for the same or a little more money

 

I do believe that it has a little to do with what happens to be popular at a particular time (I.e. Forum boner). I’ve had several Hybrid Audio speakers over the past 12 years or so and they’ve never failed to deliver. In the past 6 months, I’ve begun to acquire and use some Audiofrog’s. The Frogs have performed beyond my expectations. Both brands produce excellent performance and both are on the more expensive end of the spectrum.

I too believe the value-added with Audiofrog installation accessories sets them apart from everyone else.

 

It was probably a mixed bag of things, but I'd say it used to be the forum boner. Now it's Audiofrog and I believe they're doing a better job at marketing/selling etc. They're even on Crutchfield. Hybrid always seemed to have that "underground" stigma to it. You couldn't find it at any big box stores. It wasn't sold by any major chain of retailers. They literally have like zero marketing.

 

Thanks for the replies. Got to admit I'm surprised at Skizer slagging on Hybrid. I expected someone to say they are over rated but not to that degree. (I found some other threads where he reinforces that opinion)

I just finished a new install 3 way active using a Legatia L4 as mid range. My reference system is my other car also an active 3 way using an L4. Both sound really good to me with the new install being more exciting as I'm using the L4's in pods vs kicks which makes them seem more dynamic and clear to me.

I was considering trying to score some used L4SE just to finish it off with "the best" but I'm curious to try something different. I realize this is a dumb subjective question but do you really think I would hear a notiecable improvement swapping in a set of GB40's ? I'm curious to try a different driver but kind of an expensive lark if they really aren't that much different.

 

What's the old saying? "If your forum boner lasts for more than four hours, call your tuner."

 

I had L3SE’s and L6SE Carbon’s in a previous install. They sounded great with music made with real musical instruments. Anything electronic just sounded meh. The GB40’s in the e92 are just amazing.

I had L1V2’s in the moose. Never really sounded special. The GB10’s are really nice.

 

To throw in the perspective of HAT's lower end customers. I was convinced to get hybrid audio by the enormous, veiny forum boner that was here among other message boards... 8 years ago.

I fell in love with the sound coming out of the Imagine series components. With little knowledge about audio, but a keen ability to Google things, I felt proud owning my "underground", nobody-has-heard-of-these-outside-of-every-forum-member speakers.

I've only heard a handful of systems, but for the money those blew the others out of the water. I wouldn't mind giving other boner... I mean, options a try though.

 

There is now the Legata X series mids which from the hype are another step up again.

 

For me the thing that’s sets drivers from a company like Audiofrog apart (aside from anecdotal evidence from experienced peeps in SQ) is the amount of objective data that is available that provides ample evidence that they will deliver. I use this kind of data as a baseline for whether I will use a speaker. Anecdotal evidence is pretty unreliable when there are so many things influencing the sound. Tuning, install, power, psychoacoustics With a good test you are able to set aside those variables & focus on the speaker.

Andy’s knowledge and willingness to help has also been huge.

 

I would have to comb the DIYMA archives via google, but I recall that Scott had specifically requested that the Hybrid drivers not be Klippel tested by the site. Contrast this with various manufacturers that chose to provide samples for testing or who released their own internal testing data in an effort to highlight the objective performance of their products.

Additionally, Scott's decision to participate in the forum only when selling dealer sample/B-stock product versus other notable industry people who chose to participate in general discussions spoke volumes to me as a member here.

In the end, we are usually splitting hairs with well designed products that sit in the same price bracket. Subjective impressions aside, I'm must more willing to vote with my dollars for a company/person who has demonstrated a willingness to provide high quality support or are active within the ever shrinking community.

 

My top two picks personally are the Dynaudio esotar followed by the AudioFrog GB line - bang-for-buck though, the AF isn’t in the stratosphere price-wise. My $0.02 ... installability and support trump, nothing else I have heard in this price range of same quality.


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Are you High? Your recollection is awfully flawed.

QUOTE=alachua;5632879]I would have to comb the DIYMA archives via google, but I recall that Scott had specifically requested that the Hybrid drivers not be Klippel tested by the site. Contrast this with various manufacturers that chose to provide samples for testing or who released their own internal testing data in an effort to highlight the objective performance of their products.

Additionally, Scott's decision to participate in the forum only when selling dealer sample/B-stock product versus other notable industry people who chose to participate in general discussions spoke volumes to me as a member here.

In the end, we are usually splitting hairs with well designed products that sit in the same price bracket. Subjective impressions aside, I'm must more willing to vote with my dollars for a company/person who has demonstrated a willingness to provide high quality support or are active within the ever shrinking community.[/QUOTE]

 

Are you High? Your recollection is awfully flawed.

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1245921-post60.html

Shall I expect an apology?

 

Isn't that post more in reference to a subjective analysis by Erin (who doesn't seem to personally prefer HAT), rather than an objective one?

Edit: I could be wrong. He may have been implying that Erin was not able to complete an impartial analysis with their prejudice against HAT.

What reason would any manufacturer have for not wanting objective testing done against their products? (if that even was the case here)

 

What reason would any manufacturer have for not wanting objective testing done against their products? (if that even was the case here)

Because it dispels the magic audiophile fairy dust that expensive speakers supposedly have. Especially if it doesn't measure well against cheap catalog drivers.

Not sure I want to spring for expensive AudioFrogs, but I'm intrigued enough to go look at some catalog drivers and give them a try (any suggestions for a 4"+ midrange ?)

Here is a question that challenges why I gravitated to HAT in the first place - I realize that competitions have a lot of factors going on, from who gets product to who the judges know etc. But if HAT drivers are nothing special, then why have they racked up such an impressive list of competition victories ? Again I realize that maybe winning is based on many factors including politics, but it still seems like you couldn't pull off that much success with sub par drivers, nor would competitors continue to compete with those products. But I've never even been to a comp or know anything about how they work.

 

Here is a question that challenges why I gravitated to HAT in the first place - I realize that competitions have a lot of factors going on, from who gets product to who the judges know etc. But if HAT drivers are nothing special, then why have they racked up such an impressive list of competition victories ? Again I realize that maybe winning is based on many factors including politics, but it still seems like you couldn't pull off that much success with sub par drivers, nor would competitors continue to compete with those products. But I've never even been to a comp or know anything about how they work.

tbh, competition results arent a great way of judging the performance of a cars system, let alone the drivers used in it. I chalk it up to them having such a massive team. Kinda hard to not rack up trophies when you have like a third of the competitors (well, at one point it seemed like. Not anymore) running hybrid.

 

Lmao, wtf has this thread become.

 

I'm going to try to head off the pissing match by slightly changing the subject.

For the record, while I definitely appreciate Skizer's opinion and he certainly has a ton more experience with different systems than I do, I don't currently feel like I am disappointed with the HAT stuff (the opposite actually). I was just curious why the forum boner had gone limp. But as you can see it has inspired me to do some experimenting since that's what this hobby is all about.

So slightly off topic -

Thanks for the driver suggestions Alachua. Do you think those are all suitable for IB mounting ? I see most of these types of drivers are usually recommended for small (vented) enclosures but I'm sure that has a lot to do with people trying to use them as a full range bookshelf speaker ie trying to get down to 90Hz. But I do notice some of them have ~.3 Qts which seems like it might be low for IB mounting (for example the L4 is 0.56). I plan to cross them around 200 Hz.

I've also been intrigued by Erin H. experiments with co-axials. I was thinking about giving one of these a try (any thoughts ?)

Seas 4" coaxial
http://www.madisound.com/store/manuals/H1602_L12RE_XFC_Datasheet.pdf

Morel 4" coaxial
https://www.parts-express.com/pedoc...ss.com/pedocs/specs/297-024--morel-integra-424-hybrid-series-specifications.pdf

My maximum outer diameter is 125mm, and 118 is preferable.

I'm definitely going to experiment with some of these drivers (both the coaxials and the pure midranges) in place of the L4's and report back. I am using L4's in both of my vehicles in an active 3 way so a good chance to compare. L8's in the heavily treated doors of both vehicles, one running L1 tweets off axis in the pillars and one running some old component Polk tweeters I had laying around off axis in the pillar. I don't hear anything above 8k anyway and in fact was planning on setting up my latest system without them (another reason to choose the L4) but I did find it sounded much better using tweeters after all. One vehicle has the L4' in the kicks off axis, the other one has them in pods on the dash about 20 degrees off axis so again a good chance to compare.

 

I have not heard all of the drivers I linked, and I personally haven't installed any, so I wouldn't be the right person to talk about how they may work IB. I was strongly considering the Peerless driver for an all budget system in my Miata, but a set of GB25s came up at a price I couldn't resist.

I'll be blunt though, I doubt any of them would be an upgrade from your L4s, except perhaps the Scan driver. The others represent some nice entry points to using raw drivers, but I wouldn't call them world beaters. If you are looking to really step up, then I think you would have a hard time getting any sane person to argue against the ScanSpeak Revelators:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-4-midrange/scanspeak-revelator-12m/4631g-4.5-midrange/

Test results: Scanspeak 12mu/4731t00 Klippel Results - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum

Some pairs have recently come up in the classifieds for varying levels of discount, so you may even be able to save a few bucks.

I don't personally have any experience with the point source drivers you've linked.

 

To be objective, he specifically said he didn’t want them tested by Erin. Erin at the time had a Klippel. Yet he was willing to allow subjective testing.

I interpret that as him not wanting his drivers objectively/scientifically measured, but instead was okay with them being subjectively reviewed. The suspicious part of me says that suggests that they might not live up to the promised objective specs (linear excursion) specifically.

Do you interpret that differently?

 

I’m was talking about several other tests on other occasions, And didn’t Erin have the test results on his website?? I know the L1R2’s were tested by him, and posted by him on his website. That website has been shut down.

 

who builds the HAT drivers?

 

Btw, here's the testing threads:

Harmonic Distortion and Freq Response:
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...udio.com/forum/bikinpunks-product-review-forum/106303-hybrid-audio-l4-l4se.html

Klippel:
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/foru...udio.com/forum/klippel-reviews-driver-specs/106732-klippel-hybrid-audio-l4.html

Looks okay to me and on par with other mids in its class.

 

What are you trying to get out of this?? I never said Erin had anything to do with the ****storm, but he clearly made a comment and Scott, responded. Did you interpret that differently as well???? JFC.

QUOTE=GreatLaBroski;5633319]It's right here:https://web.archive.org/web/20171228231742/http://medleysmusings.com/hatl1pror2/

It's a tweeter however, not a mid or woofer. So no klippel involved.



I've never seen Erin prejudge a driver ever. Even via PM he's hesitant to provide anything but objective data. It's like pulling teeth to get a subjective statement from him. I have a hard time believing that he'd trash a driver before testing it.

Edit: And to finish my thought, if it wasn't Erin trashing them, then why prevent him from testing them? [/QUOTE]

 

I think you’re a lot more invested in this than I am. I’m just sifting through the available information and more or less commenting on it as I find it. That includes taking yours and other people’s comments at face value.

It might be confusing if you think I’ve taken a “side” and that I’m against “your side”. I’m not on any particular side of any argument.

I figure that others will eventually read this and I don’t appreciate revisionist history. So I’m openly commenting on what I find. Withholding info only obfuscates truth, which is what I’m after.

 

Withholding info only obfuscates truth, which is what I’m after.

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

Check into the Scan 10f.....

 

Andy has always been very active in the DIY community. If I'm not mistaken, his MS-8 thread has the most activity of any thread on the 'technical and advanced' forum.

So when he formed his own company, it's no surprise that it was a hit, he's always been a huge contributor to the community.

Another thing that I appreciate about the AF gear is that it's legitimately top-notch gear. For instance, I like the SB Acoustics 2.5" driver a lot, and Audio Frog sells a comparable driver. (The GB25 iirc.) Though the AF driver is MUCH more expensive, it is also better. In particular, the use of a cast frame is something I wish SB Acoustics would do. (Their driver uses a plastic frame, and I've cracked two of them now.)

 

Jamo FTW!

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