L3. or the genesis coax thing.

 

Genesis Studio 16 has a "coax" that rocks...
It costs an arm and a leg...but IMHO it´s worht it.

The famous Trius isn´t to shabby either..

Good luck

Sincerely
Rutger

 

No, and this is coming from a guy who works for a company that makes one.

A 3.5-inch has no business being a coaxial to extend up into the tweeter range. They only have tweeters for marketing reasons. Look for a good single-element (or whizzer cone) type design. It will likely sound better.

 

Yeah, I figured that, and appreciate your honesty because I do know JL makes one, but I notice only in the lowest line you make.

What about with a 4"? I can probably get one in there with minor cutting, although I'd rather not cut anything, I would if I had to.

The reason why I ask is that I'll be running 8" mid bass in the front doors and was going to use Dayton RS28's in the dash, mainly because of the limited high pass crossover points available on the 880PRS head unit, no lower than 1.25khz, but now I'm going a different route and now have crossover points as low as 200hz available.

I think I may have some issues with just an 8" in the door and a large format tweeter in the dash, splitting up the important midrange between two drivers since I have a feeling the DLS IR8 isn't too good too much beyond 1khz even though DLS does use it up to 3.8khz in a 2way set. I'd rather keep all the mid range in one driver, and preferably one that can extend up without the need for a separate tweeter. I know that's asking a lot.

A 3 way front stage isn't really an option either since I don't really want to cut the car for a set of tweeters or build a passive crossover.

Here's the location I have to work with. The second pic shows the mounting flange for the Dayton, it's 4 1/8" and that didn't even quite fit. I made a new smaller flange for it so it fits now, but I'm not sure how well it's going to work with the 8".

 

I think I may have some issues with just an 8" in the door and a large format tweeter in the dash, splitting up the important midrange between two drivers since I have a feeling the DLS IR8 isn't too good too much beyond 1khz even though DLS does use it up to 3.8khz in a 2way set. I'd rather keep all the mid range in one driver, and preferably one that can extend up without the need for a separate tweeter. I know that's asking a lot.

When I read the lines above in bold I thought of this thread...

HAT L4 abuse

And especially this line posted by the OP...

very much to my surprise,..... i'm having second guesses if i even need a tweeter!

Maybe you should look into the Hybrid Audio Technologies L3's or L4's?



JD

 

I'd consider them if they were so expensive. I don't know, maybe it is a great choice, they just seem way over priced to me, but I admit I've never heard them. Possibly the high price is justifed.

 

You should really hear the Hybrid L3's. We have a demo set that was auditioned in an E92 BMW for 2 days that we will be willing to offer at a discount. I'm sure you will be very happy. The only reason we changed them is because we were able to fit the L4's in instead. Please let me know if you are interested.

 

I think your answer is over at zaph audio web site. John Krutke tested a wide range of small drivers and ranked their performance. Memory tells me that one 3" full range driver was above the rest. If you have not been to his web site yet, check it out. It is one the best sources of speaker design information on the web and one of the only that performs driver comparison tests.

You don't always have to buy name brand car audio drivers to get good results. There are some great name brand products with significant development and design behind them but in this case, you are just looking to run a 3" driver full range with no or minimal crossover. I think the Hi Vi B3S that ranked high in his test will do what you need. If it doesn't, it will only cost a few bucks to find out.

 

Yeah, I've been on Zaphs many times. I read the tests on 3" full range drivers and and am definitely considering one of them, maybe one of the Tang Bands, the Peerless, the Hi Vi or the Dayton RS100's. It seems though everytime I read anything about them most still claim a tweeter is really needed to get the most out of them. That's the only reason I was considering a coaxial.

I already have Dayton RS28's so I don't care if the drivers I need are for car audio or not, in fact I'd prefer a raw driver, just thought I'd ask about the coaxials before I totally dismissed them.

I'll be using the Alpine PXE-H650 processor which has the Imprint eq, and that maybe able to do it's magic to extend the high frequencies with a full range, or I might have to do it manually, but there isn't much in the way of manual eq controls with this unit so if I extend the highs, I can't tame down the 7k or so region that seems to get pretty hot with these drivers.

 

Ever think about a BG Neo8? From what I've read they can play down low pretty well, and extend nearly as high as the Neo3 does, but most say with some EQing above 15khz you can bring some of that upper range glimmer back.

 

Don't flame me for even suggesting this but have you looked at trying Infinity's 3 1/2....KAPPA32.9CF? I used their lower line 4" coax in my last car with good results(and a lot of EQ), my system was similar to yours in that I also used an 8" in the doors with the 4's on top of the dash.

 

I can't flame you for that. I looked at them too, but I can't seem to bring myself to buy a set of 3.5" coaxials, and I was really trying to stay more in the "DIY" spirit with something uncommon, but you never know, those could sound decent.

Maybe I'll find a store somewhere that has them just to get a closer look.

 

What I may end up doing, is just installing the 8's and Dayton tweeters and working with them first before I decide to look for new drivers. I may get good results after all.

I won't know until I try it.

 

Why not a set of 4in comps. Then use the surface mount on the tweet. No holes that way.

I liked my boston 4in coax. Played down to 150ish.

 

Guinea Pig time, what's $20?

Tang band W3-1723SA
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-827

What are your design goals? What wouldn't "suck" to you?

 

Lil ****

 

what if you put a 3" peerless in with a seas 1" tweeter

 

There is one that's not half bad: the mini-UniQ in KEF's little egg speakers and one or two of their in-wall models. It has a 3" woofer cone, and a coincidentally-mounted .6" tweet brought in at a claimed 3kHz, with 86dB/2.83V/1m sensitivity. KEF rates them down to 80Hz, but that I don't believe that for a second. If they're good down to 200Hz with reasonably low distortion, I'll be happy.

The one caveat is that I don't know how they'll hold up to automotive use. I discontinued my experiment with their Ci50 2" widebander because the glue between the cone and the surround failed. That was, of course, in a ragtop with the top down most of the time, so might not be indicative of what to expect in a closed car.

Exactly how good they are I won't know for a week or so, but based on a short audition in a store they have potential.

 

I'm in the same boat as 89grand. Dodge Magnum, want big midbass, don't want to cut stuff up. I came across this on madisound:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_245_315&products_id=8432

 

I think with 8's in the door you are going to want something with some balls to keep up....and the mid range up high? Cutting to get a 4" might be the best option in terms of output? The old XTANT XIS2.4 integrated seperates would have been a decent choice. Those were floating around for cheap but may be hard to find now.
http://www.xtant.com/archives/html/products/xis.cfm

I guess $399 for the current Morel Integra Ovation XO system is out of the question? http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4764

What about the new variation of the Jordan drivers? The MARK AUDIO Alpair 5
http://www.creativesound.ca/index.html
http://markaudio.com/en

Other than that, I guess the cheap 3" full range drivers on Madisound, Parts Express are the best cost effective route?

 

Another possibility would be that supposed XBL tweeter whenever someone starts carrying it or a variation of it. Supposedly it should dig pretty low, it's got almost 2mm of xmax.

 

FYI the little KEF eggs came in today. (HTS1001.2) Haven't listened yet, but I did take one of them apart.

And I liked what I saw, a lot. The (plastic) basket looks like a miniturized version of the TC Sounds LMS/LMT subwoofer basket, with very little acoustic shadow and gigantic windows under the spider as well. You can tell lots and lots of design work went into optimizing the cone/surround edge termination, because it's basically stepless for less diffraction. By the push test, I estimate Xsus at something approaching 3 or 4 mm. It's no Aura NS3, but that's not bad at all for the class. The magnets are probably neo, and the little crossover is pretty decent parts- and layout- wise as well. There is one iron-core inductor, but the caps are decent. The two resistors are normal to each other, as are the two inductors. The inductors are also spaced as widely as the crossover circuit board will allow. Two roughly .75" thick, 1.5" wide, and 4" long pieces of open-cell foam provide internal damping.

The quality of the egg-shaped enclosure casting (two piece, with two hex-head screws under a pop-out grille) is also beyond reproach. The metallic finish on the Tannoy Arenas often looks nicer, but there's nothing second-tier about the build quality on these things.

The only flaw in these two I could see is some slight unevenness in the glue between the metal dome mini-tweet and its rubber surround. I think the baffles will look great glassed into bespoke a-pillars.

This is the kind of thing that makes me doubly annoyed at all of the stupid nativists running around. This kind of parts and build quality would be probably quintuple the price if the speakers were made in the UK, or US. Hooray to good English design and Chinese build quality!

 

Only thing that scares me about those drivers is their ability to withstand heat. It gets quite hot here in AZ. Other than that, they look like a pretty solid option.

 

I own a Magnum also that I've done a bit of modifying to. I can tell you that you will definately have to cut up that dash if you want to put a 4" in there. It's definately worth it though. I'm using a 3-way 6, 4, tw all active setup. Works great for me. Good luck with your decision.

 

let me know what you decide because i have 4" components in the kick panels on my 05 taco and was of moving my 6.5 perfects to the back and run 8s and 4s in the doors, but not sure what 4 or 3.5 would work. Don't want component cause I can't afford to do the tweet mod in the a pillar

 

[ulr]http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-842[/url]

I have tried the dayton RS 8 and a tweet in the dash of my fj and it didn't do it. I have had the above tangbands and they are pretty good. They make symbals sound more realistic then most budget tweeters I have used and they sound very smooth.