Your problem is likely from running three pairs of coax speakers. You have 6 tweeters, which is a sonic nightmare. Even with good processing, getting more than one pur of tweeters to play nicely together is a challeng.

 

agreed...6 tweeters in a car is 4 too many. Especially when 4 of them are metal, and 2 are plastic.

Time to do some tuning...do you have any EQ ability? You need to measure the response of the system as it sits if possible and report back to us your measurments.

But right away i would say reduce the output of the rear speakers..and the dash speakers...and let the door 6x9 and the sub carry 80% of the output. It may not be loud enough for you, but the clarity should improve and your ears should stop bleeding.

 

Well like I said, the dash speakers are powered by the stock radio so they are toned down compared to the front 6x9s. We do have the rear 6x9s turned down a good bit so the front doors and sub are putting out the majority of the volume.

I've never done any EQing and I don't have anything to measure the response of the system.

 

let the rear speakers be powered off the stock headunit and bridge that amp into the front doors. then the midbass will have a way easier time keeping up with the tweeter of the front door. if the coaxials have separate crossovers, you might run only the woofer part of each coaxial up front, letting the dash speakers pick up where the mids cut off in the doors.

if it were me, I would buy a second Memphis 4 channel and run the dash and rear off of it, using the first one bridged to the front doors. you'd have better control of crossover, which I suspect is causing the distortion as the volume goes up, and you can do all kinds of cool simple tweeks with ams alone even before adding or playing with stock radio eq.

 

You're getting some good feedback on how to address your issues. Don't be too discouraged, as the Ram has proven to be an excellent platform for audio builds. You'll just likely need to take a different approach.

 

We played with it quite a bit. At one point we tried it with nothing but the front 6x9s connected and it was still bright and shrill.

I also had the thought of adding a second identical amp bridged powering the front door speakers and then using the other in four channel mode for the dash and rears. But, to my surprise, there was no discernable increase in volume on the front speakers when we tried that. That struck me as odd.

 

that strikes me as odd to..there shouldn't be massive volume increases but definitely more bottom end/full sound without distorting.

 

Does anyone have any experience with that particular Memphis amp? If the stated ratings of 4x50 and 2x150 are close to accurate, how could tripling the power not make a noticeable difference? Thta makes me question what the amp really puts out.

So I am thinking about pulling out the front door and dash speakers and putting in a good component system and installing the tweeters on the front sail panels. I know that's putting some distance between the tweeter and mid, but I would think that has to provide better imaging than installing the tweeters down next to the mids. Then get a more powerful amp (something like 2x125) to power them.

 

I would play with the tweeter adjustment looks like you can knock them down by 3 db's with those speakers. The other thing is you have their bottom tear speakers without a proper EQ I don't think you are going to get the sound you are looking for played a lot in my ram with cheap speakers. Memphis makes a good amp so I would worry if its actually doing rated or not.

 

Maybe grab a free rta app for your phone?

Probably not 100% accurate, but would highlight any "hotspots" that might be creating harshness

 

I am going to try to approach this differently here... where did they grab the signal for the amplifier? Did they grab a full range signal? And how are the crossovers set on the amplifier? Did they run all new speaker wire? The front door speakers, I believe, are designed to play only mid-bass duties. If that signal is missed... there is your problem.

 

They installed an Audio Control LC6i with the front speaker wires being the signal for the door speakers I believe. I'm assuming it's a full range signal because they get pretty decent bass for a 6x9 and there's too much highs so it sure doesn't sound like there's anything cut out by a crossover.

 

The way I see it, you're running aftermarket gear through a factory head unit without a processor in the middle. You don't know what that head unit is doing for the amps.

To test, consider powering the sound not off the head unit, but instead maybe grab another music device (a phone or tablet connected to an RCA to phono jack perhaps), , or iPod) and play sound effectively bypassing the head unit. If it still sounds bad, then you've at least eliminated a large possibility.

 

We've been considering that maybe there is some factory DSP going on and we actually tried exactly what you mention by plugging a phone directly into the amp. It didn't get harsh but it also didn't get as loud. And since the harshness only comes in at higher volume levels, it was hard to make a comparison. When the current system is played at low to moderate levels it sounds pretty good. Plus the only thing we had to play from the phone was a streaming service like Google Music. I'm sure that made a difference too.

After doing my install and not being satisfied for WHAT EVER reason, it is best to elliminate a bad source first. So I would agree with Fourthmeal as the first step, but with the consideration of the other's advice, and test it with just a pair of tweets and mids.

Which shop thought that this idea was good to go with really did a screwy job.
I would try and get rid of the speakers you got, and IF your stock fronts take a 6x9, you have a GREAT oportunity to put 6x9 components, which are an advantage in many ways to standard 6.5, as you will get more lows out of standard set. And it also helps direct sound higher a bit. Those are just details....

First your head unit is likely not sending out normal signal. You need to either fix that with a DSP, or change the HUnit. then the speakers.

SO first step is to make sure your source is full range in the front and rear channels(importantly front). So do the source swap test. Then speakers.

It doesn't sound like you're picky at all, so maybe putting an MS8 by JBL would solve your issue, and a couple wire cutters to the door tweeters is another crude but effective method

I'm not sure what the shop did that was screwy. If you mean all the coaxials then some of that was me. I requested the dash speakers. They initially advised against them and I ran it without them for a week. I went back and said that the entire sound stage was at my feet and I wanted something in the dash to pull it up. I was already experiencing the harshness at louder volumes before we added the dash speakers. Adding them did not worsen the sound at all and did help pull the sound stage up like I had hoped. As for the rear coaxial, maybe that isn't the most optimum but it isn't unheard of.

My door speakers are indeed 6x9s (not sure why you question that). I've been looking into some kind of DSP to adjust things if there's factory DSP going on but that looks to be $400-500 just to do that. I don't want to change the factoty HU because it's the large touchscreen type and a lot of stuff is integrated into it.

Define picky. I would not call myself an audiophile, maybe a step below. I do like loud but I also want detail and clarity with decent imaging and sound stage.

 

After doing my install and not being satisfied for WHAT EVER reason, it is best to elliminate a bad source first. So I would agree with Fourthmeal as the first step, but with the consideration of the other's advice, and test it with just a pair of tweets and mids.

Which shop thought that this idea was good to go with really did a screwy job.
I would try and get rid of the speakers you got, and IF your stock fronts take a 6x9, you have a GREAT oportunity to put 6x9 components, which are an advantage in many ways to standard 6.5, as you will get more lows out of standard set. And it also helps direct sound higher a bit. Those are just details....

First your head unit is likely not sending out normal signal. You need to either fix that with a DSP, or change the HUnit. then the speakers.

SO first step is to make sure your source is full range in the front and rear channels(importantly front). So do the source swap test. Then speakers.

It doesn't sound like you're picky at all, so maybe putting an MS8 by JBL would solve your issue, and a couple wire cutters to the door tweeters is another crude but effective method

 

Ok, if you are getting strong low-end output from the mids then I would go with the 6 tweeters fact lol.

But if you still get the same sound from just the mids... then I really don't know. Maybe that is just how the speakers are?

 

Short of cutting the wire to the tweeters I don't know how I could test run with just the mids. I am wondering if it's the speakers or maybe the amp. It sounds like the highs are distorting. It's been many years since I've done much with home or car audio but I seem to recall most readily hearing distortion in the lower end when speakers or amps were pushed too hard. I'm not as familiar with the sound of distortion on higher frequencies alone. Because the lower still sounds clean when this happens

 

Does the mid-bass output stop increasing at a certain point? I could see this being the issue. You get strong mid-bass output up to say volume 24 and then after that the bass output stops increasing, while your mid-range and highs keep going up. My factory Ram does this, and I've noticed this in other factory chrysler systems.

 

Not that I noticed, but even when I was only running the front door speakers I was still running the sub too so maybe I just didn't notice.

you could always cover 4 of the tweeters with HD carpet to muffle them.

As a temp solution disconnect the dash speakers and see how it sounds.

Like I said, I did run with only the front door speakers and the sub for about a week and the problem was still there.

How high ate you turning up the volume?

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It depends on the song, but 30-31 on the radio is when it starts to sound bad. It goes up to 38.

 

you could always cover 4 of the tweeters with HD carpet to muffle them.

 

As a temp solution disconnect the dash speakers and see how it sounds.

 

How high ate you turning up the volume?

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Reset your gains to max at 28. That is 3/4.

 

I now the older head units clipped at like 22-25 so you probably are doing the same with the new head units.

 

But the lower frequencies would be affected by the clipping too. I'm not hearing that.

 

I'm not suggesting it's clipping. I am suggesting that the low end is being cut off at X volume level. Resetting your gains to a lower volume could counter this, if it is the problem. It would only take a few minutes to test this.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would just bite the bullet and invest more in a better system. Keep the amps and subs you have, add a DSP and a second 4 channel, and dump the Memphis coaxes for a 3 way up front with either 6.5"-8" or 6x9 in the door, 3s in the dash and tweeters wherever works best. If you have the processing, you could consider keeping the rear speakers for ambient fill.

It sound like a lot, and it certainly does change the majority of the makeup of the system, but it doesn't have to be super expensive. Choosing reasonably priced raw drivers and something like the MiniDSP processor (if you installer is willing to work with them) can certainly keep the price in check.

 

Clipping is more noticeable in higher frequencies imo

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So I took it to another shop and they don't think there's any factory EQing going on but they determined that by listening not by checking the signal or anything. They want to try tuning it to fix it but I don't see how changing gains and adjusting the high pass crossover is going to help my overly bright system. I'm really losing confidence in my local shops and would like to verify myself if the factory signal is flat or not.

Am I correct that I should be able to find out by using REW on my laptop and using a RCA to 3.5mm cable to connect the output from my Audio Control LC6I to my laptop? If so, do i use pink noise to take the measurement?

 

Here's my thoughts...it probably is flat but if you have the factory head unit doing something with phase then it could really screw up the final result that the amp gets. This is why I always put a processor in. It is has been MS-8's mostly but those are getting rare.

And you're right, changing the high-pass shouldn't do anything.

 

I wish there was an installer around worth a darn so I could quit taking stabs in the dark. I would like to definitely know what the problem is so then I could figure out how to correct it. Unfortunately, none of the shops around me use RTAs or deal with DSP at all it seems. And my knowledge is pretty basic.

Can I tell if there are phase issue with REW reading the outputs?

 

Where at in Ohio are you?