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Need suggestions - 2002 BMW E39 (530i with Sport package), budget SQ build

14K views 32 replies 8 participants last post by  kattan_tha_man  
#1 ·
My buddy who I recently did a build for in his black M3, has now bought a E39 and wants to do another build...

It will be a lower budget SQ build, $1,000 - $1,500 for equipment.

I'm thinking: 2way active, Dayton DSP (do I want this headache? or get the MinisDSP 6x8), a 12" sub or two in the trunk. I'm thinking of trying the Toro Tech amps for this one...

What kind of space is there behind the door panels??? The midrange grill looks to be around 5.25"... :(

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Any thoughts???

Thanks!
 
#2 ·
The e39 only has space for a 5 1/4 inch speaker in the door. That's small, which is not so good, but it has it's own housing, which on the other hand is good.
So get the best 5 1/4 inch speaker you can fit into the budget and that can play as low as possible (80-90Hz would be great).
For bass... is this car a sedan? Does it have an opening behind the rear seats to the trunk? If yes i would strongly recommend a 4th order bandpass enclosure in the trunk with an 8 or 10 inch.
You definitely need a DSP to tame the 4th order though which is tuned differently than you would normally do. People in Germany have good success with such an enclosure with high tuning in BMW cars, especially sedans with ski opening in the back seat.

Theory behind is like the following.

4th order bandpass with closed section big enough to get a 0.7 QTS for the driver used. Ported section 2x this size with a port big enough to have approx 2/3 or 3/4 and tuned to the resonance frequency of the car (should be anywhere between 60 and 70Hz) of the sd of the woofer (and yes, this is big) directly coupled to the cars interior through the ski opening.
This will give you a massive spike around the resonance frequency like in the picture 4th_order_without_DSP (simulation of a 10w3v3-4 in such an enclosure).
--> now use the DSP to set a lowpass at around 45 with a steep electrical slope (18-24db) to bring down the spike. Above this lowpass you still have a very high efficiency and very low excursion and use the resonance frequency to your advantage. The low excursions also helps with integrating the sub to the front speakers as it lowers the group delay tremendously.

Now simulate the cabin gain and you should get a very flat (simulated) response in the car.
You will have the usual peaks and dips anywhere in the response like with any other sub, but this kind of setup work exceptionally well in these cars.
 

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#6 ·
Thank you for all of this info! We will need to go with a flat wedge shaped, sealed box against the back of the seat, as trunk space is important. The car's owner is a pilot.
Available space is 32" wide, 13" deep (at the bottom) and 14" high.
 
#3 ·
Why not go with 1 sub and use the extra money to go up to the minidsp? I solved noise issues by using an inverter tucked away and a cord ran (hidden) to the dayton. But why deal with it if you don't have to.

And if you're willing to play that sub up until 100-120 with your HP filters, you should be able to make up for it being a 5.25" [emoji6]

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#5 · (Edited)
MiniDSP it is, then! Besides I am very comfortable tuning with Mini's software...

What are some good 5.25" drivers??? Crutchfield shows about a max mounting depth of 2.25".

One of these subs could work, I think:
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#7 ·
This is my equipment list so far... Any opinions?






Still trying to figure out which speakers... 5.25" does not leave many options... :(
 
#9 ·
Still trying to figure out which speakers... 5.25" does not leave many options...
Since you're on the Dayton kick why not try these? Yeah they're 8 ohm but the Toros give you enough cheap power it shouldn't be an issue. Some NVX silicone baffles can help make them weather resistant.

 
#11 ·
I haven't modeled them or checked otherwise, but could you maybe find a more sensitive driver than the ultimax? It'd be great for lows but with the volume you have available you could do a ported 12 pretty easily. With the budget in mind you could boost efficiency numbers and maybe save space. The minidsp will flatten response issues out.

Are y'all open to used things? I haven't seen any subs lately in the classifieds but [emoji2369]

If you can fit a small spacer than these door speakers may be decent options



Tweeters, well I always suggest the sb29 for 2 way actives. It may could fit in one of those spots, it is a big boy.



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#13 · (Edited)
Went ahead and modeled the ultimax, SI sql-12 ported and the alpine type s 12 ported

The sql won hard to me, at the rms of your toro amp(800 watts) it never exceeded xmax above 20 hz. It asked for a 1.3-1.5 ftÂł box tuned in the mid 20's

It's also $300 and that depends where the rest of the budget is allocated.

The alpine I had issues modeling since I couldn't find all the t/s parameters but it performed near your max box size tuned to mid to high 20's and even then you'd have to watch power or you might have xmax issues depending on the music content/volume. But it's $150. I used these in the past and liked them a lot. For the price you may could consider 2 sealed?

The ultimax just kindve fell in a sealed box. Winisd suggested I believe a 4.5 ftÂł box for it which is too big for your size limits. I had to turn down the power to ensure excursion safety.

Red is si sql

Green is alpine

Blue is ultimax.

Thanks for reading and tolerating lol
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#14 · (Edited)
Went ahead and modeled the ultimax, SI sql-12 ported and the alpine type s 12 ported

The sql won hard to me, at the rms of your toro amp(800 watts) it never exceeded xmax above 20 hz. It asked for a 1.3-1.5 ftÂł box tuned in the mid 20's

It's also $300 and that depends where the rest of the budget is allocated.

The alpine I had issues modeling since I couldn't find all the t/s parameters but it performed near your max box size tuned to mid to high 20's and even then you'd have to watch power or you might have xmax issues depending on the music content/volume. But it's $150. I used these in the past and liked them a lot. For the price you may could consider 2 sealed?

The ultimax just kindve fell in a sealed box. Winisd suggested I believe a 4.5 ftÂł box for it which is too big for your size limits. I had to turn down the power to ensure excursion safety.

Red is si sql

Green is alpine

Blue is ultimax.

Thanks for reading and tolerating lol
Image
Image


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Man, thanks a million for that!
 
#17 ·
Done Ultimax, HO12-44 and SQL12 and the SQL stomps the other 2 and the HO comes in 2nd, the Ultimax is only a contender in really big ported or some kind of loaded reflex/TL box.

Don't know how big the enclosure in the door is - but if you're going to keep up with the SQL12 then make sure they have some xmax... maybe the CDT HD5?
 
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#18 ·
Honestly, this. But could you possibly do 2 Dayton 12's in the box? Or even the 2 alpine type s'. Their underhung design is good for low distortion. Your box might be on the slight small side, but it may could work.

I think 2 12's would be your best option. That being said, idk your friends expectations of bass. 1 sealed 12 may be enough for him.

I would suggest an audiofrog GS12 if you could find it but.... [emoji51] Hard to find new for decent prices (thanks to chithead for mine lol)

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#21 ·
The sub will get a 1 cu.ft. sealed box, and the amps and dsp will be in the little cubby on the passenger side of the trunk above the battery...

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I have a separate thread for the box build, as I want it to be really nice with lots of detail...

 
#32 ·
For my own car, I don't care what it looks like, shooting for stealth. But it's always a treat to see artistry in installs, particularly enjoy the balance of striking & subtlety you found. Pretty cool it has factory sealed door boxes - I didn't know that was even a thing.