It seems a problem in volume level. Moving tweeters will not help a lot. Try to EQ the system. Do you have some measurement equipment? Try with different angles if possible, then reflected from the windshield

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk

 

If the passive xover has a tweeter attenuation switch, use it. Typically in active setups the tweets are cut 3-5 db from the midbass. Other than that, like mentioned, use the eq. IIRC that xover uses 24 db slopes at ~2 khz so yeah cut between 2-4 khz.

 

I beg to differ. Axis makes a big difference especially with most car audio tweets. Even Andy has stated that JBL designs their tweets to be played off-axis. EQ & level helps, but it is not a band-aid for poor placement. I have a set of ND20FA-6 in the sails with zero EQ. Only xover, level, & t/a set. The measured response was very surprising...... install them like they were meant to be. Bouncing off of the windshield usually isn't a good one.

 

I beg to differ. Axis makes a big difference especially with most car audio tweets. Even Andy has stated that JBL designs their tweets to be played off-axis. EQ & level helps, but it is not a band-aid for poor placement. I have a set of ND20FA-6 in the sails with zero EQ. Only xover, level, & t/a set. The measured response was very surprising...... install them like they were meant to be.

Everyone's an expert.

1. Read OP's first post, the tweets are in stock dash location. Where are most stock dash locations? They are already off axis.

2. EQ is a band aid for placement? Dude you need to see and understand Andy's graphs for response, 1" from the cone and at ear level. The whole frickin car is a ****ty placement for speakers that play above ~500 hz. You need to eq for the cars response, and that is crappy no matter where you mount speakers.

3. If just by putting tweets in pillars, you don't need to do any eq, then either you're measuring wrong or not listening closely enough, whichever way you tune the setup.

 

Yeah. Bouncing off the glass right into your face might as well be on axis.

 

Yeah I'm thinking that is exactly what is happening

some good chat here guys, keep it up!

I do not have any testing equipment, other than the Pioneer auto EQ mic (which I have used before and was VERY happy with)

How far up the A pillars should I place ??

 

Far too many variances between cars & drivers used for that example. That does not make it a fallacy, but it does not make it an absolute either. The point is I do believe Andy has stated this several times which a quick google of keywords should easily bring that up. Slightly different set, but I'm sure the same holds true for all of the GTI's.

JBL 660GTi is designed to be used with the waveguides at 35 degrees off axis.

Now whether that is feasible in every car is questionable, but I don't think I would call that near the same as firing off of the windshield. If that is the only option, then sure you will have to deal with it in tuning. Other than that, I think we all know the general consensus is optimize install first, tune last.

 

Like SQnutjob said, it can work and many make it work well but it needs EQ. Which you have. What you don't have is a way to lower its levels without lowering the mid.

 

When using passives you're at the mercy of what they offer which isn't much. There's jumpers inside them that can be adjusted, but they will only attenuate by -2db if already set at the 0 setting. You may have them set at the +2db so you could net -4db if they are. Other than that, it's EQ if they're to stay in that position. If it's much trouble, you can move them around temporarily to find the sweet spot and possibly use the included wave guides to maximize things.

There's a few threads on here dealing with the GTI sets you could peruse and get tips from. Don't be surprised if most run them active though.

 

As far as my not knowing what I'm doing referring to having no EQ on the tweets in the sails (again.... sails, not pillars ), here's a pic of the response of both tweets and full system as I was doing some fiddling today. This was using uncorrelated pink noise as I am measuring total system response. Individual drivers were measured and adjusted some time ago after the install. Dayton USB mic using a sweeping motion from ear to ear to obtain an average. 1/6 smoothing which should be fine for upper frequencies. Again... the EQ is flat on the tweets.

Now I'm not saying his or anyone else's tweets will exhibit the same thing as these are little 3/4" tweets crossed at -24db LR 7khz. The same measurement technique was used on prior setups in the same vehicle where a different tweeter was located elsewhere and did wind up needing some EQ work in that area. I have not changed my measurement technique.

 

it feels like they are screaming at you.

Tried also to flip the phase on tweeters?

 

wont do much at those frequencies. itll sound different, but will still be bright

 

Flipping one will just make things sound worse if they aren't already out of phase. It will sound sort of diffused if that's a proper description. Amplitude & axis adjustments are your friend with tweets.

 

This might be difficult but it will clear up the amplitude issue.
Unhook the mid from the passive and lower the gain to see if you can still reach enough output without them screaming at you. It will sound weird without the midrange but it will give you a lead into a fix.

 

Would be curious to hear your impressions once you get this sorted out. Even better - would love to see you/your car at the next meet around mid May in MA (no date/place has been set yet).

 

actually sqnut, i think the reason i even asked him about his eq settings in the first place was right after i saw you say to lycancatt that if your not using all of your eq bands your car isnt as good as it can be or something like that. and question.. why do you always talk about top placing competitors like you know everything (or anything for that matter) about their car, install, and tune or as if your a top placing competitor yourself? not a single person who placed at finals last year is active on this site. considering that and that your on the complete opposite end of the globe, how are you obtaining information about their tunes?

 

My experience tells me that pretty much every single band needs to be tweaked to get the overall response balance, tonality, dynamics etc. (AS HEARD not necessarily as measured). Unless you're hearing the small differences, that add up to the whole sound, you're not going to understand what I'm saying. Of course this would not be enough for you.

In one of KP's build thread I checked with KP how he uses the eq and he pretty much uses all the bands and each band is set in +/- 0.3 db steps during rough tuning and then in 0.1db steps for fine tuning. Is that good enough for you?

Edited to remove extra comment.

 

Off- axe effect for 1 inch tweeter will start to work at frequencies higher than approximatelly 6750 Hz. Diffetent placing and angles will not help at the most critical range of 2-4 kHz. Try to make a little dip og 2-3dB at for example 3kHz at check how it sounds. Might help, at least a little.

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk

 

^^ Any tweeter will be omni directional at 2-4 khz so angling doesn't mean anything, which is why I suggested a cut in this range in my first post, before all the experts jumped in to talk about axis and reflections.

 

This is correct. The only way angling a tweeter will make a difference (below it's beaming point) is if adjusting the angle ends up moving it closer to a surface. Assuming you are simply adjusting the angle, and not moving where it's mounted, there will be no difference until beaming.

 

Correct. I would simply move the focus on the most critical range of the frequencies for a human ear. Driving myself at least 3 last years with a similar dip at 3 kHz and happy with it.

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk

 

Can we see results of measurement im your car? It w

Sendt fra min GT-I9505 med Tapatalk

 

Even if that were true, that doesn't explain why you use "the top 3" cars as your go-to example yet you know nothing about them

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

I only talk about how good those cars would sound and hence as a benchmark when we talk about SQ. How you read those posts is none of my concern and of no interest to me.

 

I found this to be a good write up. It's a little old but still relevant.

Car Audio Tweeter Install: A little "case study" - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum

 

If he does what I suggested he will know what the problem is.

 

So who in this tread has a championship of their own? Or even a win or two

 

its all irrelevant. just pointing out how silly sqnut looks when he talks about "top cars" as if he built and tuned them

 

......

 

I mostly just shut up and read.....

 

I wish more of us could do the same.

 

I feel ya, brother!!!!

 

It's just as relevant as anything else.
All this post is not is a swinging contest.

 

Competed once with an unfinished install and a beat up prefab box. Got 2nd of 13 with the most basic install of the bunch in the money round. Took home an AF sub as a prize, but no trophy as our friend horizon pointed out lol. Still irrelevant

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk