whats your xover point?

 

I'm using the passive xovers that came with them, I have the HPF on and adjusted to about 80hz? Even set to full it is not any better really.

You can see my work in the build thread in my sig.

 

Well alot of what is perceived as midbass is more around the 63hz crossover point. Try lowering the HPF down.

 

Anything wrong with it being set to full?

Does it have anything to do with how they are mounted in the door is my question really...They are solid mounted, but there is no box behind them, just the sealed door. The factory speakers had a thick plastic cup behind them, should I have something like that still?

 

quick checklist:
1. Drivers should be in phase (not acoustically, but + and - should be connected the same way on both sides)
2. Check whether the door's sheet metal is filmsly by playing loud and pressing on the door - if you get more midbass, then you should brace the doors with glue/epoxy covered mdf.
3. Try to connect the woofers without crossover and listen - if you get better midbass, then the coil used in xover is weak (the wire used in coil is too thin).
4. Which wire have you used for power, is your (-) is properly attatched?

I still haven't got the midbass i want, from dual mids

 

2. Check whether the door's sheet metal is filmsly by playing loud and pressing on the door - if you get more midbass, then you should brace the doors with glue/epoxy covered mdf.

Why does everyone here seem to have a hard-on for MDF? If doors need to be braced, it should be done with angle steel/aluminum.

 

More power and a good processor never hurts

 

This.. 120 clean watts rms should suffice.

 

Yeah, chest thumping bass is like 80-120Hz

 

I use around 63-70 for hpf on midbasses all the time.
Do u have another set of speakers to try? Since I can't hear it couldnt tell you if it's the limitation of ur speakers or the tune

 

It may be just the limitations of the ID's. Not the first time I've read they lack in mb output. Sucks if that's the deal...

 

look into beaming angles and the capabilities of your driver playing the right notes at your ankles. the down side is that if you move them to kicks to improve the beaming issues then you'll lack the air volume to produce the lows you want.

 

Beaming isn't the issue. Beaming is a function of a) driver diameter, b) frequency. The larger the driver and/or the higher the frequency, the more it will beam. It's not a problem at these frequencies with any driver that can fit in a car. If we were talking 2kHz or 3kHz or something then yes, beaming would be a discussion topic for sure.

 

I'm going to try opening up the filter again and see if I can hear a difference. I just wasn't sure if it was better to have them in an enclosure rather than the whole door being an enclosure.

 

Yes it is better to have a sealed enclosure. I wish I had my Mid Bass sealed instead of a big ole leaky door.

 

I just thought I would be able to feel the bass on my leg/ankle from the speaker like I can in my TL. It just feels weak compared to the stock system in my car.

 

no, they are not, but I imagine they still build a quality part. (not to mention that the coil gauge will make little difference. even if they are 20ga, it wont change the value of the coils)

 

It can limit power handling, of course, and the coils can saturate and cause a rather weird distortion, but I doubt that's what's going on here.

 

Why don't you try to bridge your PDX 4.100 to give it more power to your passive crossover and listen to some songs with lots of midbass as loud as you normally listen and adjust the gain from your amp as high as possible before your speaker start to distorted. That should give you some nice strong midbass sound.

 

More power will not change frequency response except to flatten it a bit due to power compression. But for the most part, that advice definitely won't help.

Can we all learn to get over the idea that power fixes all problems? It doesn't. Let's stop claiming ridiculous things like a set of speakers needs 300WRMS to "come alive." Really?

 

Prove what? "it sound better"? Kind of hard to prove a completely subjective statement like that one. If you need someone to prove that in a well designed system the FR is fairly linear with respect to volume level/applied power then maybe you are in the wrong hobby as this is one of the main design goals of any audio system.

Now if the guy said he was lacking midbass at high volume levels that would be one of many possibilities.

 

snake thanks for your opinion :bash:

 

Didn't read the all the posts, but one thing to check is to make sure your mid bass drivers and subs are in phase.

 

when you say subs and mb drivers in phase is that acoustic phase?

 

That Alpine is a little lite in the shorts to run what you have and produce the results you desire.....add another amp :dead_horse:

PM me if you need some help

 

I've never heard more power sound worse

 

x2...exactly.......It always helps....headroom is golden :beerchug:

 

the xover actually do nothing for the mids they have a natural roll off. just for kicks try reverseing the pos and neg of the speakers on one side. and how much power are you feeding them?

 

So you think that he needs more than 100w per channel on efficient midbasses to get good output. Wow!

Acoustic phase is more likely the culprit. Try swapping the phase as mentioned earlier.

Try the free stuff first before you spend money on something.

 

Yes, to reach the performance he's looking for :laugh:

Do you have any experience with this line of speakers

 

never said that just asking how much power he was feeding them. those sets are rated at 150 watts rms but what i have noticed from similar threads that 9 out of 10 times the person starts off with feeding them with a lil bit of power then when they give them more they say it sounds way better.

 

x2....exactly....I agree with you 110%

Some people have no experience with something, but post like there experts on the subject

 

Again, for the most part, more power will NOT change frequency response (power compression is minimal, and it tends to flatten things out, anyway). He is NOT claiming that they are not getting loud enough. He is claiming that he doesn't like the frequency response.

I am not AGAINST the idea of more power but if you guys convince him to go buy a bigger amp and it doesn't help (it won't - period), will you compensate him for the bad advice?

 

I am not advising him to buy another amp or speakers. I only advice him to bridge the amp. It doesn't cost him anything except the time to do so.
I give my advice, it's up to the original poster to do it or not.
When it come to car audio, anything is possible. You just have to get your hand dirty and experiments to see what work or not.

I am not AGAINST the idea of more power but if you guys convince him to go buy a bigger amp and it doesn't help (it won't - period), will you compensate him for the bad advice?

 

if you take a woofer/midbass that was designed for IB and you put it in a small sealed enclosure. you are not gonna get good results.

 

X2...exactly....so don't do it....more power more power

First bridge that whole amp just to the components, and relay the results to us

once you gave them some real power it will bring a smile to your face

This sounds like a SPL issue not a FR problem

 

100 watts per channel from the pdx should be plenty. More watts would give some more headroom and better dynamics but I don't think that is the issue here.

Lower your xover points. Seems you're cutting the sub at 100 and the mid at 80. With the sub is playing well into the 200 range. In real world terms you're hearing the mb from your sub. That will sound like mud. I'd cross the sub and mids around 50hz.

Tother thing is getting your mids in accoustic phase. If you have TA use it, if not try flipping the polarity on your near mid.

 

You guys are starting to sound like a broken record :dead_horse:

 

what *click* what *click* what *click* are you talking about? >_>

 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...um/how-articles-provided-our-members/33740-simple-way-tune-courtesy-cmusic.html


Read about midbass below , [from C Music tuning tutorial above ^^^]

1. Set all bands flat, as well as the head unit bass and treble.

2. Turn off the subs. Using music with a good bass line, run the highpass crossover up and down until the midbasses can play as low as possible without any distortion or excessive door panel vibrations.

3. Unhook the mids and tweeters, allowing only the midbasses to play. Listen to mono pink noise or a well-recorded song with a centered vocalist. Test CDs such as the IASCA test CD or Autosound 2000 Test CD 102 or 103 will work great. Listen to where the centered sounds are coming from. Then reverse the polarity of one midbass (Reverse the speaker wires coming from the passive crossover and going to the speaker, just flip the positive and negative wires. I usually flip the driver’s side speaker.) and re-listen to the test CD. If the sounds are more centered then keep it as is. If the centered sounds are more diffuse and un-locatable, then flip the polarity back to where it was originally.

4. Then unhook the midbasses and play the mids only and follow the same polarity and listening tests as before. Mark your best settings.

5. Do the same procedure for the tweeters.

6. When you have tested for the proper polarity from all three ranges of speakers, hook all of them back up with respect to each set of speaker’s best polarity. You can have any combination of polarity, such as all the midbass and tweeters straight and one midrange reversed.

7. Now you should have the correct “acoustic” polarity set within each set of speakers. Next is to set the acoustic polarity between the sets of speakers.

8. Listen to some very familiar music with a good range of sounds. Then flip both midbass’ polarity and listen again. Before you only flipped one midbass, now you are doing both at the same time. For example if the left midbass was reversed and the right was not before, now the left will be not reversed and the right will be. Listen to the music again. If the midbass is more powerful and full then leave the wiring as is. If the midbass sounds weaker and wrong then restore the wiring as before.