if all else is the same and you have no limitations, i would go with 3 way although it is trickier to get right. you can use a large midbass and not have to worry about mating it to a tweeter which is a plus. more option for drivers, etc etc.

in terms of subs, usually more (cone area) is better due to less excursion for the same output, but i know in your case, if i remember correctly, you have 2 or 3 "sets" of subs that all play different frequencies. i would never suggest this. its just asking for issues

 

With the two sets of subs and one set of mid bass, I did get a perfectly flat response from 25 - 100 Htz. After 100 it took a nose dive to 200.

But I the 12's stopped working and I just left them out of the equation.

On a side note, after listening to your demo, I couldn't get that first song out of my head. So I went to Spinnaker records and found an original copy of Children of the Sun for 99 cents. I'm about to put it on the turntable now.

 

Two way front with horns and 8s or 10s is very sick.
Three way , eeh . If it's a one seater sure, dsp your way in.
But, either way.

Non horn , three way.

Just what I would do I guess. , but a two way with even a pro midbass and a amazing tweeter would be tight as well.

 

3 way front stage, as SkizeR stated... with a 3 way setup you can run a larger format midbass driver and with a dedicated midrange you can bring your vocal imaging up higher in your sound stage , also you won't have critical male vocal range being drawn down to the lower section of your door where the midbass is installed.
As far as sub section. .... one sub is all that is needed. Put the biggest sub you can fit into your application, 12" or 15" (15 is ideal), low end extention from a larger driver versus multiple smaller units. This is not the gospel of audio information, just what works for me.

 

actually, i gotta say.. every system that is properly tuned with mids (and ever tweeters) down low, have all sound up on the dash. including mine. i didnt believe that was possible until i demo'd buzzmans car

 

My next vehicle will likely be a three way front.

If space truly were no concern it would be four way front, as in subs up front.

 

A good example is jazz singer Gregory Porter, his vocal range is wide but centered in a baritone range. So when his voice goes really deep and in his lower octave range, the lower placed midbass speaker will be dominant in reproduction duties- causing his once centered vocal images to swing to the far left or far right. This pulling effect is really evident when the tweeters are placed up high in the ass pillar

 

Lol in the a-pillar..... lolol this phone has a mind of his own!!

 

I was going to edit that last posting, but it's too damn funny

 

ahh gotcha. ill see if i can test this out. any specific tracks?

 

I'm currently tuning my new front stage, the whole Liquid Spirit album by Gregory Porter is one of the "go to" discs that I'm using. The song wolfcry is a great baritone range recording.

 

3 way with cone/domes is good for another reason I don't think has been mentioned- getting a good polar response. 2 way setups will almost always have some blooming in the midrange because of it.

If space permits...I would do a 3 way horn front stage too. I think all of my competition setups with horns were 3 way. The Shoei Civic with the ID minihorns that came over to the states from Japan in 98 and 99 popularized the 3 way horn car with the rest of us Team ID guy's future...it beat Rob Rice, which in it's day was like beating Kirk in his class .

 

3-way because beaming.

No really, I'd try to get a big woofer up front like 9 or 10, then a mid like 4 to 5" and then a nice ass tweeter.

And of course, sub if needed.

 

you gunna put that nice ass tweeter in your ass pillar, or whatever hot9dog calls em? lol

 

If space and mounting difficulties weren't a concern, I think I would rather have a 2way setup with 5 1/4's or 6 1/2's in the far corners of the dash with large format tweeters mounted right next to them.

 

I did 2-way front. Midbasses play 50-300hz and then widebanders in the dash playing 300hz on up. Sub plays 47hz and down.

Anyway, the theory was to not break up the frequency response between drivers anywhere in the crucial midrange. Think of the point source concept. All frequencies coming from a single location, and in my case a single driver. It creates an extremely precise and stable image. I *could* add tweeters, and have considered it, but it would just complicate things and likely end up smearing the image. There is no need tonality-speaking with the drivers I am using.

My last car had a more traditional 3-way front with pillar mids and sail tweeters.

 

You can get a flat phase response with multiple drivers. Tom Danley has a horn with 60 some drivers on it- a 3 way design that has a phase response better than a lot of full range drivers.

But you are not making a point source when you bounce them off of the glass. At least not for their entire operating range.

 

Some high end home stereo speakers have concentric speakers where the tweeter is located in the middle of the midrange or mid-bass.

TAD speakers, Pioneer Speakers, KEF LS 50. among many others. I was actually thinking about ordering concentric drivers and installing them in a vehicle. Has anyone done this or am I the only crazy one?

 

erins old setup used kef speakers.

 

There are some concentric car audio speakers.

 

You gonna keep it a secret? What brands?

 

I've had both in my car and i'm going back to 2-way. I have a small cabin, and just got tired of mid range pods clogging up my dash and windshield.

Sucks, because it's the best it has sounded, but I just want to simplify and cut down on equipment.

I plan to get back to a 3-way when I get a different daily with better install options though.

 

once you go 3 way you never want to go 2 way

 

Odd... I've done it.

As far as brands... Morel- illusion- there are some old school ones out there also.

I have the old xtants in the dash of my accord/ I blew one and have been running a tweeter on the dash and I'm very happy with it. My daily driver and toy are both 2 way and Were strongly considering a morel integra in the other car with a 6x9 in the door.

In all seriousness... Get a good pair of bookshelf speakers with properly built xover and plop them on you dash along with a serious 12" sub and I think you would be happy- simple as hell to tune.

 

Had both 2-way & 3-way. Not an easy question to answer in real world situations. Of course less would seem better. Easier to tune and less cost, but getting a beefy midwoofer anywhere up top & on axis isn't easy unless you drive a bus or something with a elephant sized dash (I prefer stealth). Big difference between theory & reality.

 

The advantage of a typical 3 way is, that it allows you to get 300hz and up at dash level or higher (although you can do the same with a 6.5 and 2.5-3" mid on the dash). All height cue frequencies are dash level or higher. I feel that visually this alignment gives the stage a bit more cohesion, and you tend to notice depth a bit more.

Tonally, there's no difference between a 2 way and a 3 way, as long as drivers are appropriately chosen. If you're tuning to a ref sound, how close you get to it is down to first and foremost your tuning skills, followed by choice of drivers for the application. A 2 way vs 3 way is not part of this equation. It takes more work dialing in a 3 way as already mentioned and if A and B have equal tuning skills, and the driver choice is right, then A's 2 way will be at par tonally with B's 3 way.

 

I only got into SQL car audio 3 years ago, and I am still on a 2 way.

As far as stage height and vocal imaging, I have 6.5's about 3/4 of the way up the door, fairly high for a car, and then 2" widebands on the dash. The mid plays 85-1500 and the wideband 1500 and up.

I have a bit of droop on deeper male vocals but even then it is just ~3-4 inches under the center of the dash, while anything higher than that sits about 3-4 inches above the dash. Bass and midbass is also centered and just below or at dash level. I have no pull to the left or right though and bass guitar is properly represented.

I have spent months and months on this current tune and setup, lots of time spent on TA as well to get everything in phase without big cancellation areas.
I would say most normal people will get EXCELLENT results with a good 2 way IF you spend the time tuning it and setting it up on the initial install.

Don't be ashamed of a 2 way rig. They can sound kickass. It's all in the install and tuning.

 

It truly depends on so many variables. Just like home audio, there's more than one way to crack that nut.

Speaking of point-source or concentric speakers, you guys ever play with the SEAS units? They look really nice!

 

I've looked at them a while back. The 5" appears too hefty for stealthy locations. The response graph looks nasty for the the mid & tweeter in the xover range, and above 10khz for the tweet. Wish someone would attempt a small 3" one besides the Illusion Audio C3 CX.

 

Tannoy, Kef, TAD/Pioneer make the best ones technically speaking- they get the tweeter to cone transition the best.

The rest have notches in the 4-6k range due to the tweeter termination n the cone. Off axis the FR smooths out.

 

Also I'd like to play with Alpair stuff. Too fragile for car use though!

 

Jordans sound great...and do a little better in the car.

 

what the hell. ordered em. free 2-day shipping...be here friday.

 

^ true. and true.