Awesome. Can't wait to see it.

 

Just got the hook up on sound deadning showdown supplies.
Getting CLD , MLV, closed cell foam, and some thick padding throughout.

Currently on pause until I can get a HO alternator.

Most the gear has arrived , waiting on a few small things and some 8"s to be made .

#gettingexcited

 

I'm in

 

Sub'd

 

2 Stevins Audio HLCDS
2 Stevins audio 8"
2 Beyma 10g40s (or Stevins audio 10s have to wait till there available to check its parameters)

When I did a Google search for Stevins Audio, all I got was a mention on DIYMA about OnCore and Eric Stevens. If this is a different company, do you have a link? Curious about a brand I'd never heard of?

Jay

 

Stevens Audio is Eric Stevens new company. Not sure if he has a website up and running yet. Oncore is DOA

 

Looks like it's gon' be interesting! Along for the ride.

 

FUN!! I'm in.

 

I've considered those a pillars about the best for audio ever. wonder how big they will be with eights in them.

 

It's going to be stupid big A pillars . I'm kinda nervous. But **** it why not, the low PLD makes me so excited for an A pillar build.

When I had the santafe I had it dialed in so good but just wasn't happy, like real happy. Everything I was doing and the extreme amounts of DSP and FIR processing just could not replace the PLD problem. Sure it was good, but about 2 years ago I knew eventually I would buy this type of car.

Every car that comes into the shop I would look at for potential SQ builds and the Fit just met everything that I like and want in a system. But gosh dang what a joke of a little ride, but hey it's a Honda , it's built well and drives .... Well like a Honda .

I can't stand kick panels and HF coming from my legs, but the SQ from those locations just can not be done with a dash build unless you get that distance from the speakers.

After listening to Wayne Watkins Mazda I knew that's what I was after , as far as perfect imageing from both sides and dash mounted drivers. but I also knew it needed a horn to be at my level.

I'm sure I'll have to make some changes to my original plan, (that always seems to happen at some point) but for the most part I can't see any reason why this won't work. Well, minus the gas tank being under the front seats will make it difficult to get my midbass boxes in the floor , but I think I have a solution for that.

I'm contemplating doing a sub/midbass inside the dash where the glove boxes are , like Wayne's it would work very good, I have to wait till I do the dash pull to really see what kind of room I have .

It's going to be nice to FINALLY make a true SQ car for myself and not someone else. I've built countless cars for customers, I'm very excited to be able to do this for me at least once in my life.

Im going to install a new HO alternator this weekend , I'll post pics along the way, I just got done doing 3 bulk packs of dynamat, the mlv , cc foam, and thinsulate will arrive next week , once the headliner is put back in I'll probably start the dash work.

I don't have 2 years to spend building this car, but I do have one day a week for however long I need to get it done , my goal is to be able to start tuning by September

 

So I think my fit is a ex. Has power windows , ac, usb, cloth seats, no sunroof , and **** hubcaps. I m slowly going to morph it into a fit sport. Get the oem 8spoke 16" wheels in grey

I just ordered a steering wheel out of a sport model , has wrapped grip, shift paddles. Just ordered new civic si steering wheel audio buttons as well. They bolt on wheel in knockout. Going to use the paddles for track forward/ back being the normal swc only has volume/ch/ mode , so I'll be able get more on the swc . I'll just have to read-wire the wheel a bit for the clock-spring and add a few resistors.

I also just got BNIB fit oem floor mats , my wife is going to embroider "Stevins audio" into them. (Gives the wife a project she wants do stuff to it also)


Ive been dreaming up ideas on the dash and midbass. I think I'm going to build the dash to come up a tiny bit at the far back and make some jigs and incorporate a flus ring that has a long shape that spans the entire width, have it about 4.5" wide and on the ends make it angle back torwards the driver/passanger , I'll have the tops of the horn motors back inside there , I'll make it out of smoked plex so that I can pull it off to access the horn motors. I definitely will want to be able to put diffrent horn drivers on. This will mean I will have to somehow fix the stud of the driver mount to the horn body. I won't be able to get the horns out of the dash but I can make a tiny access cover to access the motors. The top of the firewall goes up to a small shelf like where the defrost vents are, that's where I'll cut the majority of the horn into the firewall. This will make it possible to get the drivers in/out with somewhat easier. Once the crash pad is back in I don't want to have to remove it to get to the compression drivers.

The 8"s in the A pillar glass boxes I want to recess the 8s into the front of panel and make another jig that expands the "grill" to a bigger shape that joins the gill for the horns. I want to make the 8"s under that have a adaptor plate to I can interchange drivers , from 6"-8" . I just know I'll want to try diffrent drivers so I might as well make it part of the design.

Just ideas churning , I like this thread for sharing ideas, but also as mental notes to self.

Hope the new alt shows up tomorrow. Can't wait to get that portion done and over with.

 

I also just got BNIB fit oem floor mats , my wife is going to embroider "Stevins audio" into them. (Gives the wife a project she wants do stuff to it also)

Then you might want to make sure she spells it right. It's "Stevens Audio." Just so you know.

Looking forward to progress. I like the 2nd gen Fit. Test drove one before I bought my Rio. Liked the car, hated the manual trans/clutch.
Is yours a stick or auto?

Jay

 

This build log sounds like something I should be watching.
I'm excited!

 

I wish you the best of luck with this build and can't wait to see it progress. I would recommend taking it to a metal fabricator to reinforce what you cut out, the last thing you want to do is get into an accident with a car that has had it's substructure cut away... I was very careful with that when modifying my car. I didn't wanna lose a leg in an accident because I cut too much outta my kick panel(s). I plan on driving the hell out of my car; not sure what your plans are so that may not apply to you....

 

Let me help you with that:

 

Lol thank you !

 

 

I tryed to remove the dash today. Gosh dam I ran into a problem that ruined my entire life .

I can't get the crash pad off!!!!
There's a big metal bar that runs the span of the dash and it has metal brackets welded to it all over that the crash pad acres to in lots of little places. To get it out the doors have to come off to get to the bolts in door jam and the ****ing motor has to be pulled to access the bolts in the engine bay!

I AM NOT going through all of that. I'm so discouraged right now. My only hope is to just take a air saw to the dash and cut. I am NOT doing that until I go to a junkyard and cut a dash out of a Fit to see what else is under there .

The good news is behind the factory tweeter is a gallon of room . I can fit almost any driver I want down there. And that's the spot that has the lowest PLD. If worst comes to worst I'll do under dash horns or do a square horn body , like my small set of jbl 1.6k horn bodies I have.

I can still do what I want it's just going to be a bigger PITA !

 

On a good side , I got some nifty 16" oem Honda racing grey 8 spoke wheels. Got a great deal on eBay for two , I will look around and find two more

 

Got the power plant today. Nice lookin alternator,
Again, Ron at quality power is awesome. He made it custom for my car, he made me a personalized hand drawn mounting instructions, custom brackets. Awesome packaging. There awesome to work with. Can't wait to do the install.

Also got the fit tinted , did some 18% all way around.

 

Nice Grand Wagoneer!
Pics of new wheels?
And come on man, you can pull the engine and the doors for a stereo build Hahaha

 

Just got my Honda Fit , gonna do it up real purdy like and have some fun.

System will be:

Alpine double din with optical out (X008)

2 minidsp 2x4HDs optical input
2 Stevins Audio HLCDS
2 Stevins audio 8"
2 Beyma 10g40s (or Stevins audio 10s have to wait till there available to check its parameters)

1 Focal FPS 4160
2 focal FPS 3200
1 JLHD 1200/1 (eventually will be another focal amp)

1 18" B&C subwoofer

Its a 2012 , has 6700 miles, super clean and fresh for a sick build.
Been wanting one for a while when looking for the ultimate SQ car layout.

My goals are for it to image in both front seats.

I'm going to re-work the dash and cut the horns into the upper firewall right under the windshield. I'm also going to build a custom a pillar that allows 8" midrange to be mounted in the dash. The location for the 8" had a PLD just over 6". Where The horns will be I measure a PLD at just 4".

I'm going to do a subtub in the spare tire well for the 18" sub. And make it so I can run it either sealed/ported/IB. I'm going to make a port/vent that I can put a plug into, and make a plug on bottom of car that can be opened to vent out to atmosphere when I want to go IB.

The 10s will be in the footwells cut into the floor/firewall area and fiberglass enclosure that runs down the underside of the car and be sealed and have about/at least 1cu ft of airspace each

The amps will be mounted on a custom anorak that follows the back seat to its top, and will be floating so that I still have a trunk that is useable.

I am installing a high output internally regulated alternator. (270A)
There will also be a second battery on a custom bracket in the engine bay.

Feel free to chat, definitely intrested in any ideas for the build.

The bucket,

[img=http://s32.postimg.org/v0n7fhqvl/image.jpg]

[img=http://s32.postimg.org/qax9qvzv5/image.jpg]

I'll refer you to your own post and Eric's response.
Horns are intended to be listened to off axis. VERY Few cars have pulled off horns in the dash with any real success of the car actually sounding good.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/hlcd/270922-crossfire-angle.html

 

Well hopefully I'm one of the few. I'm doing it ! and how many of the ones that did try it point the horn streight up into the glass (YUK) that would be a trainwreck of arrival times imo. Not to mention all the other combfiltering problems that would be a issue as well. I'm not pointing them torwards the sky, that would shrink the stage to the car interior and cause so many bad problems. They will be firing straight forward like a underdash setup, and far back like your bmw was . Just up a little higher so the HF isn't buried into my legs.

I have been spending months playing with them on and off axis, preparing for this , in that thread Eric gave me some very key info as to understanding how it all works. Comparing what Eric said and what I have listened to I my own tests, I think I'll be successful. I will have a 4" PLD from either seat from head rest to motor. The horns will not at all be up close and in your face. The mounting is going to go straight forward and relitive to head position the horns will be about as high as your chest. So they will be relatively low , thus making them in-between off axis and off axis. At a distance of 44" driver and 49" passanger ( from driver seat) and 42" passanger and 47" driver (from passanger seat) I think it should do very very well. ( so wierd how un-symmetrical a car is, driver seat is more in middle of car and passanger seat is very close to passanger door panel, they definitely gave the driver more room)

The problem in my tests has been mouth termination at crossover. I can definitely hear the air break around 1k, subsequently where the horn size it self is at its absolute lowest point (minis) above 1k it's fine. I wasn't able to simulate this car and the termination ( obviously I haven't made the cuts yet) but if I keep the crossover above 1k it shouldn't be a issue. Although I'm banking that the windshield will help terminate the horn very well. The glass is flat and has no concave shape to it at all, that should help tremendously for combfiltering and such .

In my tests I really wanted to know at what point on the horn the energy is thrown out from the horn the strongest, I want to further test that so I can possibly get the correct Angle (if any) to the horn when I mount them. I think I'm just going to have to see how it works out when time comes. Based on what Eric has said, the strongest point should be in the area right at the opposite listeners head area. I used a yard stick and followed the shape of the horn right at the flare about 2" away from the edge of mouth, and it points to that spot in car. So, hopefully it is right. I also took my rta and put a 1.6k/3k/5k/ sine wave and measured spl as I slowly moved mic about 6" in front of mouth of horn and watched for where the highest spl was as I moved the mic from side to side in front of the horn. I also tryed some the same thing off axis slightly. I got a 6db gain on the sides of the horn compared to directly in front of it .

I think I'm going to have to worst case add some foam around the mouth of horn where it terminates . Just to get some of the energy calmed a bit. And have some foam paneling on the bottom 3" of the windshield all the way across. As well as some foam on the a pillars ,

So, yeah . I totally get what your saying. The horns ARE meant to be played off axis. And I agree , so I'm mounting them off axis, just not very far off axis, and definitely not below the dash.

If its dismal failure I will be the first to admit it and I'll simply change to a diffrent horn, like a 4"x4" jbl. Or a 10"x2" selinium, on the contrary I think it's going to work out very good. Eric's horns still toss energy to other side on axis, and they still sound good on axis. They just work remarkably well off axis. I just need to worry now about what to do with all that off axis energy that smashes into the windshield. I'm pretty sure a 10" foam pad should do the trick pretty good.

Why not just use a diffrent horn all together? One that is made to be on axis? Well that's a good question, I just can't find one the sounds as good as Eric's horn in a car on axis. I have about 10 different types of horns or waveguides. And IMHO, Eric's horns still paint a more realistic stage on axis as a selinium or a jbl or a peavy horn can.

The biggest problem with Eric's horns on axis is PLD and Eric even said it himself and I absolutely agree with him while heartily, PLD has to be low low to get it to work right on axis. In my Hyundai I had a 14"PLD, I had FIR processing and gobs of shelving eq on the right horn just to tame its output. The right horn was further away but louder than the driver side by 10db. And it was wierd, it normalized under 2khz, I had to do a shelving eq centered at 1600hz and bring down the right side so much to get it to sound correct. It worked , but the problem was the horns were too close to the listener and a artifact of it again was poor PLD.

Getting some distance between the listener and the horns allows the opposite energy to get to both ears in correct time so It can work the right way based on the horns shape. I think it's the ITD/IID stuff at play that makes them work so good but I'm not sure. I'm not a hearing expert, but I am a thinker.

So, I'm not sure if you were trying to reccomend I not do it , or were just warning me about there off axis inherent design, however I assure you it can work good. Definitely nothing I would recommend to someone to do, because these horns are not meant to be on axis, and again I'm not using them on axis. At least not completely.


Think about the space you listen in, think about it more as space rather a car interior , now use why you know about speaker behavior and think it out.

If a horn controls the pattern of the dispersion off axis a certian way that is desirable, who says you have to stick it under the dash? Well the manufacturer reccomends it yes, but why? Because that's the spot in a car interior that is off axis, what if it was mounted directly in front of you and the moth of the horn was pointing to the floor? Well , it would control the pattern the same as it would mounted under the dash right? Yes, that part dosent change , you would have to completely remove the dash all together for that to work, however if your just far enough off axis for the pattern control to work our beneficially and the source of the sound is in a desired location, why would it work? The only thing I can come up with is off axis reflection, that can be controlled in HF pretty easily with dampening.

By the end of it I may have a completely custom horn like some have done, but maybe not. Well see.

 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/hlcd/151544-horns-top-dash-2.html

 

Nice find, thank you! I haven't read that thread, however even not reading these responces tells me I have the right approach with the treatments and placement

If you can couple the horn with the windshield and then treat the top of the dash with proper sound absorption foam to prevent compound reflections it should work excellent.

Eric

Poor PLD (path length difference) so it would only work for single seat and the dispersion pattern of the under dash horns that makes them work well in a reflective environment will only work mounted horizontal.

To sum up, wont work well at all.

Eric

Again, that truck had a setup much like my santafe did. Very close in proximity, can only get to sound really good in one seat with gobs of dsp .

I'm going to have a cream puff for PLD. At least I hope so

On pats thread you have been against upper dash mounting as well, which I agree with as well . I'm against it for 90% of cars that a underdash is better suited. My santafe underdash arrangement was horrible, nothing could get them to sound right. I sat too far upright and the underdash was too far forward meaning my legs were inches from underdash.

The FIt I can do underdash pretty good, I sit pretty low, I probably will try it before I go chopping things up, but I know I'll end up with the up top.
Call me crazy but I like it .

 

Got most of the CLD installed. Just that alone made a huge difference, tomorrow I do closed cell foam , MLV, and thick padding . The stock padding I decided to leave in contrary to what SDS (sound deadener showdown) reccomends. I think they might want you to just use and buy more of there material, maybe some cars stock padding isn't good, the stock padding in the fit is very dense and thick. I kept it in just skipping the thick padding step in those areas. In fact the stock padding seems a bit better than the SDS stuff, whatever , it's in there.

Also got some wiring pulled to the back. Ran OFC speaker wire , three runs to the front. I used electrical tape around the runs with black loom on top of that. Just to match the factory runs . The Honda loom is more grey than black , but at least it's the same type of insulation.

On the rcas I taped and loomed all 4 runs in one bundle. Ran a remote and source ground wire as well.

The 0ga stinger OFC I did not use tape on, just black loom on top of it. I thought it was cleaner that way so went with it.


The spare tire well is very shallow, I was wanting to start fab on that and get some glass down. I think I'm going to take the car to a buddy that welds airplanes. I think he has some engineering expertise and want to know if he can build a metal cage that is like a strut brace bar but for under the car. The spare tire well under the car has structural frame beams that connect the main car beams together in the back. If I cut out the spare tire well to make it deeper , I think the structure will be compermised , so I'm going to have to weld some beams in/under the lowered spare tire well.

Joy, I wasn't expecting to have to do that, but I definitely want some kind of trunk left , and want to keep weight down. And I still want me triple configuration enclosure for the sub.

 

I had a hell of a time getting mlv to fit in my door. Eventually gave up and ripped it out when the door panel wouldnt fit on properly anymore. So be very careful and tedious about how you get it on there. The velcro stickies add thickness as well and after they are on for awhile. They dont like to come off.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

Put the 270A monster in today. Worked out well
































image hosting over 5mb

 

Put the 270A monster in today. Worked out well

Did you figure out how to disable the Honda ELD?

 

Starting my test placements today. Hooked up my handy dandy 12 yr old Kenwood amp I modded. Sick tiny little amp btw.

Put some very nice 4"/1" computer speakers in my desired locations and starting testing.

For where I want to put my midrange I have a PLD of 6". From 350hz-and up I don't need any TA to get a nicely centered image, under 350hz it's hard to tell. It's not totally clear and sorta muffled. I need my dash mat to show up and some treatments to really tell .

So far so good. It's going to work, I'm really hoping the 250-350hz range works out that could really smear the image for both seats if it's not done just right.

I've been on a anti-time alignment kick, it seems to really destroy stage width in a hurry and causes nothing but problems. I'm hoping to just use TA just between drivers on the same side and zero TA against drivers on opposite side.

Found the cars dip today also. Looks to be centered about 390hz. Hopefully I can work placement angles enough so cancelation from side to side is minimized. I know there won't me a whole lot I can do, but being at that frequency it won't matter a whole lot where the speaker is "aimed" it will matter in the speakers upper range. I'm going to have to try a few diffrent aiming spots to try to get the suck out reduced while maintaining proper pattern coverage throughout the drivers bandwidth. Something tells me I'm going to have to make a compermise.

I have about 45degrees total positioning adjustments to play with and still have the install look good and not behave something different from either seat.

Anyway. Getting excited to start the fab. Also not excited. It's going to be a crap load of work.

Does anyone know where I might get the braided loom? I really want to use that. I want red and black. I need 0ga , 10ga, and 16ga sizes. Or whatever . I want to do all my underhood and speaker runs with it.

 

Most everyone seems to use Furry Letter's store on eBay. Great prices, great selection and great service.

Wirecare.com and Parts Express also carry some, but not a wide variety.

Jay

 

Thanks Jay. Just ordered some !

 

Got the wheels today!! Woot woot






screen cap

 

Got the wheels today!! Woot woot

screen cap

I see you got dem 420 edition wheels...
I've been following your build and just had a question:
What are the pros and cons of horns in a car, from your experience?
Is it that they have better off-axis response and can be crossed lower, raising the sound stage, plus higher effciency? Why are some people against horns in a car?
Thanks!
And we need some shots of the wheels & steering wheel mounted

 

got the civic si steering wheel buttons working today. I did the whole wheel and got aftermarket illuminated buttons. Used the paddle shifters as vol up/down. Had to re-wire the wheel a bit. All works and is good . Gotta love the SWIRC