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Audiofrog, Emphaser, & B2 Amplifier Clarification

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14K views 56 replies 21 participants last post by  bbfoto  
#1 ·
To start - I am in the middle of purchasing Audiofrog speakers (thank you @Niebur3), so this is not intended to talk badly about anyone.

That said, in planning future upgrades, I have been reading a lot of hearsay in regards to the new A150.4D & A600.1D being clones of Emphaser / B2 @ double the price.

I've worked in manufacturing in the past, and am well aware of how a lot of this works. Its extremely common for a manufacturer to use previously existing designs / specs / plates & molds to use as a baseline for something they want to make. I am not saying (I have no way to know), that this was done here. But I would like to know if anyone has actually done a deep dive in comparing the amps or if Andy has actually addressed the issue directly?

It might be helpful to know that way a lot of speculation doesn't define a product that may better than a percieved copy.
 
#4 ·
Source?

M_Mark28 said:
www.diymobileaudio.com

Audiofrog Amps and other brands of High Res Amps

So other than seeing other DIY members post about the brand, I have no experience. Most seem to agree they have great sound quality. That said, I'm looking for amps capable of High Res frequencies. It appears their 4 channel is capable. Is anybody running one? Live listened to a system with...
www.diymobileaudio.com www.diymobileaudio.com
Click to expand...
That was actually the thread that led me to post this - it doesn't answer the question 😅
 
#3 ·
www.diymobileaudio.com

Audiofrog Amps and other brands of High Res Amps

So other than seeing other DIY members post about the brand, I have no experience. Most seem to agree they have great sound quality. That said, I'm looking for amps capable of High Res frequencies. It appears their 4 channel is capable. Is anybody running one? Live listened to a system with...
www.diymobileaudio.com www.diymobileaudio.com
 
#10 ·
It's not that simple, well, at least not for me. It's not the first time I've seen a product be "cloned" in a sense and rebranded. But I also know full well that in manufacturing, testing, and QC standards are vastly different depending on who you are contracted with. Just because something looks the same, does not mean they are. Until someone puts all 3 on a dyno and takes them apart to test it, it's all speculation.

I actually exchanged some emails with Andy, where he explained the situation, which made a lot of sense, while also realizing it's not a simple yes/no type of scenario.

That said, when I do upgrade some components in my car I'll definitely be looking at the AF amps 🐸
 
#16 · (Edited)
Out of curiosity since your reply is riddled with assumptions.... $699 for that amp. Can you list for me what amps put out the same amount of power as efficiently that would ideally give me the same level of support, state-side, should something go wrong with it?

The main ones - say, compared to the A150.4D are the JL-Audio XD 400/4, Audiocontrol LC-4.800, and Arc Audio X2 600.4 all in a similar price bracket. Or by your line of thinking, paying for their magic logo. Actually, the JL-Audio XD doesnt put out as much power, so its not "as" magical but it is aroud the same price bracket.

So by all means, list them out. I always like to see competitive products.
 
#26 ·
This intrigues me due to the overall uncommon design the of amp's PCB thus not everyone is making them, probably just one manufacturer. I would love to find differences but unfortunately apart from physical comparison under a close eye, i don't have an "amp dyno" to measure power performance just oscilloscopes and meters.
 
#28 ·
What are dealers actually selling the Frogs for? How much difference are we really looking at in price, not just MSRP? Of course a dealer network marketing/branding approach will have a higher msrp vs online sales, they also bring some real world advantages to the buyer. Anybody have any examples of what the pirate models bring second hand vs. the legit AF amps?

Products with a solid dealer networks are much more administratively and logistically taxing. Making and keeping the relationships with dealers, securing and monitoring territories, providing sales aids and training for your network. These things eat time, cost money and require significant outlay for quality employees. They also protect the brand, feed the industry and keep the value of your new product in place for resale.

I really think that these factors could close the gap to a fairly negligible difference. Plus, all AF has to do is some worthwhile improvements YOY and this whole concern floats on down the river.
 
#29 ·
Anyone picked up the B2 Mani 600.4 yet? I’m about to get one up here in Canada. I’m looking at upgrading my Kenwood Excelon XR-4S for highs/mids. I’ll leave the other bridged XR-4S for the midbass, because it has higher advertised headroom (300W), and if the highs and mids get better, well it’s a toss up about doing the midbass amp. I can justify going from older less efficient class D amps and getting some space and current back. Current MSRP $544.99, listing at $419.99 plus a 5% store wide discount. So let’s say $400+ tax of 13%. Shipping has a free option also for Canadians. so, that’s about as good as it will get unless you are already in America and can get it at your dollar value if $349/359 USD. Would cost almost double for Canadians to get it in and pairs for with all the extra fees.
 
#31 ·
So I convinced someone to buy one, betting it would be the same amp as the Emphaser can be had at $280 in Ebay and such.

First observations: Both amps are identical with very slight variations on the control covers/stand and both suffer from some QA imperfections. Additionally, there are some review videos of the AD amp and the reviewer says the amp can't be opened because the innards are basically fused to the body. In the contrary, these amps are very easy to open.

Well, you guys can be the judge of that, so let's compare...


First a quick comparison:
LEFT: Emphaser, RIGHT: Audiofrog
  • Here you can see that both share the same physical layouts, right off the bat the AD amp has one imperfection: Manufacturing forgot to remove the plastic covers (blue) for the thermal pads.
Image


Moving on...
A closeup of the Emphaser - Here we can see a bit more care was put into build, adding thermal paste and covering the power leads with tape to prevent a possible short
Image


Now Audiofrog- it came like this
Image


AD-Taking out the blue tape as it can prevent proper heat dissipation.
Image


Emp - When I took apart the emphaser, I noticed right away that it had little remnants of solder metal left out when workers cut out the extra legs of components, I also noticed it had little "casting ears" left out that could potentially break off and cause shorts. Last pic here has all the casting metals scrapped off.

Image
Image
Image



AD- the Audiofrog had also the casting remnants but thats it.
Image
Image
 
#33 ·
#34 ·
I am glad you were able to get a hand on each. This does go hand in hand with the conversation I had with Andy about them. They should measure differently though. Not in output per say, but in everything else.

Now, if that were to be untrue, and there is literally no changes from board to board - then that would be dissapointing.

Hopefully they can be tested thoroughly so we know for sure and people stop speculating.
 
#36 · (Edited)
The best analogous example I can give you, is what happens with computer chip manufacturers.

You can have 2 exact same pieces of silicon, yet these chips are binned into different tiers once you put current through them and see how they clock. They can have different levels of performance. The same can hold true for a lot of electrical parts.

That said, I am in no way claiming this is what makes the AF board different. Not to that level of detail. What I was told is that there were tweaks (without specificity) made to the board to get the end result they wanted, thus making them different. But, in all fairness, that is a claim that can neither be proven or disproven until there are actual measurements being done.

Visually, they do look identical. The output may or may not be the same, and past that - a spec like damping or SNR could be different. And if they were to consistently be, within reason, that would prove one claim vs the other.

This honestly wouldn't be such a big deal if the amps didn't look like Carbon copies of one another 😅
 
#38 ·
I’m a fan of Audiofrog (just look at my signature), but I seriously doubt there’s anything special or different about the Audiofrog over the Emphaser. I hope someone is able to bench both of these on an AudioPrecision and report their findings.

I do know that Audiofrog has proven to back their products with regards to warranty and Andy has provided more technical support and information on here, Facebook and elsewhere than possibly anyone in the industry. That is great assurance for past and prospective customers, and it should warrant a higher cost compared to products from a company that doesn’t offer those things. I like Andy’s information, insight and support. If those things are important to you, then support Audiofrog.

As far as Class D amps go, I’m sure these are both great performers (possibly the same).
 
#40 ·
Considering the similarity of the components and build quality I believe the audible, performance, and lifespan differences will be a very small.

Some main differences to consider though would be Warranty and resale value. The AD will definitely hold its resale price overtime better (like a JL Audio) than the "no-name" Emphaser, similarly to a Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe, they are the same car but the Matrix can be sold at a higher asking price. Additionally, warranty will be better on the AD as well, the Emphaser did came with a "1 year limited warranty" card, but who knows how that process will go.

But at the end, I think if you want a decent amp that can do what you need for a couple of years, best bang for the buck would win.

Edit:
Oh yeah, if you get either amp, I recommend to clean those little metal shavings and protect the solder joints with some tape if not present.
 
S
#42 ·
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