Did you flip the switch on the passive network to attenuate the tweeters?

 

that would be my first step as well. I've never been a fan of focal tweeters except the eutopia b ones but I think you should be able to get a sound you like overall even with them.

 

I believe the switch is flipped as it was something that was discussed during the install process, but need to take the doors off and double check.

 

Focal tweeters in general seem to be pretty notorious for being a bit harsh. I didn't have the Flax tweeters, but I did have a Focal PS 165 component set where I swapped the tweeters out for a set of ScanSpeak D3004s, and it made a world of difference in terms of cutting down the harshness and brightness without losing clarity. I was also able to cross them over a little lower, too. Plus, they work very well with the 6.5" Focal woofers. I am running active, however, but swapping out the tweeters might be something to consider if your budget allows for it.

 

Very odd, I find the Flax to sound very smooth with a subtle level of warmth compared to many others. I love Jamie xx although I haven't heard the new album on Flax tweeters yet but I will very soon. Such an amazing album!

 

replacing the tweeters doesn't have to be expensive either if you decide to try that out.

 

As long as the crossover can handle it, just remove the rear tweeters altogether, there is no good reason to have the high frequencies behind you, and it's very difficult to tune multiple tweeters for good sound.

 

They hurt my ears for a while too. After they broke in and I put an rta on them to tune in really enjoying them. I think what's hurting you has nothing to do with the tweeters. The upper midrange on the woofer can get rough. If you cut on that dome these speakers become very full and warm . I found a slight downward eq curve seems to suit them best.

 

That and he's running a weak amp for those speakers. The f50 isn't all that powerful and dollars to doughnuts says he has peaks in FR exactly where his little 9band or whatever basic deck eq dosent cover. The flax stuff is nice sounding , and the tweeters can sound good so long as nothing is boosted

 

Thanks everyone for the responses so far. I do agree with drop1, I think it is more of an upper midrange issue vs. tweeter, but am not 100% sure on that. I talked to an Orca rep awhile ago and it seems that the crossover frequency for the tweeters are above where I perceive the issue to be. It's hard to be certain though, as I obviously haven't fixed the problem yet.

It's interesting to hear a comment about my amp. According to the specs from Focal, my amp should match up with these speakers and it was recommended by my dealer, but maybe I need a bigger beefier amp to really make them sing. I'm not opposed to that idea as upgrading to a bigger amp wouldn't necessarily be that expensive if I bought used.

That was another concern, the 9-band EQ kinda sucks compared to the EQs I'm used to using for audio production. I would like to get a processor someday, but before I go spending another grand, I want to make sure that will fix the underlying issue.

 

9 bands is plenty to get a good tone out of these speakers.
I've got a pretty heavy cut at around 1khz on the eq. 2 and 3khz boosted a hair and everything above that cut about 4 db.

 

I have heard the flax 3-ways, but not the 2-ways. The flax series drivers which I have heard are some of the "least harsh" sounding Focals I've heard, and they can be controlled to sound quite nice, if presented as a singular pair positioned and tuned properly forward of the listener position.

However, if an additional pair is added, behind the listener no less, this presents a near-impossible tuning challenge for even the best of equipment, and the best of tuners for that matter.

It is no surprise to read that this configuration hurts the ears.

If the aim of this installation is superior reproduction of sound, getting rid of the rear "front stage" would be a logical first step.

Most folks neither want nor need a "rear stage", so get rid of that, unless that's what you like, of course. Invest instead on developing a singular front stage and going active.

If nothing else, this move alone should cut your pain in half.

 

I have heard the flax 3-ways, but not the 2-ways. The flax series drivers which I have heard are some of the "least harsh" sounding Focals I've heard, and they can be controlled to sound quite nice, if presented as a singular pair positioned and tuned properly forward of the listener position.

However, if an additional pair is added, behind the listener no less, this presents a near-impossible tuning challenge for even the best of equipment, and the best of tuners for that matter.

It is no surprise to read that this configuration hurts the ears.

If the aim of this installation is superior reproduction of sound, getting rid of the rear "front stage" would be a logical first step.

Most folks neither want nor need a "rear stage", so get rid of that, unless that's what you like, of course. Invest instead on developing a singular front stage and going active.

If nothing else, this move alone will cut your pain in half.

I can agree with this. They stage really well and once tuned to sound correct that's exactly what they do.

 

I often turn the rear speakers off with the fader when it is just me driving. It still hurts though.

I agree with the rear stage. For some music it sounds ok, but for most the system sounds better with just the front stage.

 

The rear stage should be heartily discarded... Do it, don't look back!

A rear stage will only confuse whatever goodness the front end is producing.

Honestly, it's hard enough to try tuning a single pair of satellites; don't make life so difficult as to try winning this losing battle of sitting between four of them!

Unless you are going for a full-on surround system with adequate processor to support that, fogettaboutit!

 

Nothing stings the ear like 2 tweeters being just a little out of align with the other. 4 tweeters will only amplify that to unbearable levels.

If you are passive you are forced to turn the tweeters to an almost precise spot to get them aligned.

 

Before you buy or change anything use an rta and play some pink noise to see where the frequencies are too high. Hopefully you have the processing power to tame it/them. I think there are some rta apps that are free even.

 

^^ Exactly.

You're using thousands of dollars worth of equipment. Please don't tell me that you're running without an EQ?

This is essential; in a car it's literally impossible to get a good soundstage and smooth frequency response without EQ.

 

I've been using a free RTA app on my iPhone, pink noise, and have been observing the RTA while music is playing as well. I tend to see spikes around 1k, 2k, and 5k. I've lowered those frequencies and at low volumes it generally sounds ok. If I turn it up though, my ears are like 0_0.

Maybe my perceived volume of moderate is above 90db and in damaging range. I'll see if I can find a spl app for my phone or find someone with a meter to see where I'm at.

i think I'm going to look more into selling the rear stage and making the front stage active. The money from selling the rear stage could go towards a beefier amp or processor perhaps.

 

if you do keep the rear stage for passengers, you could put any old coaxial in there and power it off the headunits rear channels, dedicating your 4 channel amp to going active.

 

Very good advice and that is exactly how my system is set up and when there is no passenger I fade to the front so my sound stage is back to here my installer tuned my system to.

 

Front tweeters in sail panels

Has anyone else experienced issues like this before, or own a pair of the flax series that doesn't hurt?

Yes but not with flax. 165V30 set, reversing phase of tweeters helped. (+- wires reversed at crossovers) Rainbow makes note of this in their manual, focal probably still does not.

 

I would keep cutting back on 1K, ( especially, 2K ,2.5K and 3.1K) , and try 4K, 5K and 8K see if that helps. 2.5K being the worst as far as hurting my ears. Drop that as much as possible. If you have a parametric equalizer make it really fat and cut as much back as you can.

There is midrange hurt and tweeter hurt.

 

I measured my typical listening volumes with a free db app on my phone and realized that what I consider a moderate to quiet volume is right around 90db :/. I wonder if perhaps part of my issue is listening to music too loud. My typical volumes were never so loud as to turn heads or make my hair move, but I've noticed the pain hasn't been as bad the past couple days keeping it just below 90db. It's just not as fun .


Still though, even at ~90db it feels a bit sharp in the midrange. I currently have 1.2 and 2k down by -4 or -5, then the rest of the upper range at -3. The back speakers have been turned off. It's tough because while the EQing has helped a little bit with the harshness, it still doesn't quite feel like what I was expecting for the amount of money I paid for these speakers.

I'll keep tweaking the EQ some more, use the RTA app on my phone and test out different curves.

 

Still though, even at ~90db it feels a bit sharp in the midrange. I currently have 1.2 and 2k down by -4 or -5, then the rest of the upper range at -3. The back speakers have been turned off. It's tough because while the EQing has helped a little bit with the harshness, it still doesn't quite feel like what I was expecting for the amount of money I paid for these speakers.

Did you try swapping the polarity on tweeters? Costs nothing but little time to make the switch.. I understand if crossovers are mounted inside the doors you might want to try eq it out instead..

It's so easy to do on 80prs

 

I listen to my system usually around 95DB with some peaks over 100. On some tracks, the high guitars, audience cheering, or female vocals make me turn back the volume knob. Maybe you can try an inexpensive quick speaker swap and see if that harshness goes away? Hopefully, you can fix it with more tuning.
Kind of hindsight, but its always best to demo speakers before you shell out your hard earned $$$$. May be a costly lesson. Listen to as many systems as you can and find out what you like best. Everyones ears and tastes are different. Reviews are subjective. At least if you hear a system that you really like, you know you will not be making another gamble.

 

I'd say it's a tuning issue. Gotta measure! Always.

 

^^ more good advice

 

That's the thing. I demoed these speakers at the store and they sounded great. Of course, that was in a demo room.

I haven't tried switching the polarity on the tweeters yet but will look into doing that. I am also thinking of going back to the shop and using their RTA to see how it matches up to my free phone app. They have a nice unit there, or maybe I will get lucky and shop up on a day Gary is hanging out.

I might be able to work out a way to test some other speakers as well.

In the mean time, I'll keep tweaking the tuning.

 

Are you using the ps165f or the ps165fx components? The fx series are have much more flexible xovers. Id try swapping polarity on the tweeters and checking the slope at which the speakers are crossed over at. There might be a reflection or something causing the peak in frequency

 

One thing about the Focal speakers tho, if u check their RMS and peak, it's very low. U don't need a lot of power to push them because they're so efficient. I have heard the focal tweets are harsh but with the Flax...everyone says they're very smooth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I demo'd those, and the Flax 165FX were the speakers which made me reconsider Focal. I found them still on the bright side, but not nearly as punishing as anything I heard from Focal before. Anyways that does not solve your problem but it should be salvageable.

First, I'd disconnect the rear tweeters. If they are annoying you, less of them should be a good thing. Then, flip the -3db switch in the crossovers

http://www.focal.com/usa/en/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=3970

At high volume, both speakers and amps can distort massively. With the 85wpc Alpine, you are already at what the speaker can handle. With any wattage, we are most interested at the level of distortion that comes with it. Alpine plays it safe and specs .07% THD at rated power.

The speaker looks to be pretty efficient, too: Nom. power: 80W. Sensitivity (2.83V/1m): 91.3dB

 

Lots of bad advice here...

 

Really? That's what you're going to contribute to this discussion?
Leaving a little jab like that and walking away makes you sound like you know more than everyone else but you're not willing to teach anyone, just point out their failures and laugh.

Prove me wrong.