Tried the auto signal delay feature tonight in my car, and also did an auto eq along with it. Ill give it a listen over the next few days

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

Tried the auto signal delay feature tonight in my car, and also did an auto eq along with it. Ill give it a listen over the next few days

Did you include the sub channels in that auto signal delay? Curious to know how well you think it performs!

 

jaw-drop emote

AWESOME! I do not regret choosing Helix.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

I just want to know how to save a tune with a name and not have it revert to M-3546759. That and what exactly is a global save?

Where can I find info on the WIFI app settings? Need to know what the different volume controls do...

Would be nice to have a feature to help alert you when channels are linked other than the little squares. I have mistakenly had the wrong channel linked which is brutal when changing crossovers, ugh. The little squares would be much easier to identify if they were directly above the channel...not all the way to the right. Having the entire area above the channel change color would be way better.

 

I just want to know how to save a tune with a name and not have it revert to M-3546759. That and what exactly is a global save?

Where can I find info on the WIFI app settings? Need to know what the different volume controls do...

Would be nice to have a feature to help alert you when channels are linked other than the little squares. I have mistakenly had the wrong channel linked which is brutal when changing crossovers, ugh. The little squares would be much easier to identify if they were directly above the channel...not all the way to the right. Having the entire area above the channel change color would be way better.

What would you like to know about the WiFi control? I have one fitted and use the app also

 

Yeah, I've never liked those little squares either - it's way too easy to confuse which square is for which channel with the way they are positioned. It would be nice if the whole "Channel A" text went into a reverse video or something like that instead of the little boxes.

 

Same with the damn mute and phase indicators. I'm working on a 12" laptop screen. Something a little more pronounced (like what you said for the link buttons) would be deeply appreciated.

Ge0

 

exactly... I had my screen minimized just a little and it cut off the little box for the last channel. It's pretty critical when you have channels linked... much more important than a little ass box that has a check mark..lol

 

On a positive note I just installed Steven's MB8-2's in my doors. System sounds incredible and gets stupid LOUD

 

I dont understand these volume settings

 

The sub volume basically changes the lower limit of the subwoofer slider...

And from memory I think the other adjustments with volumes are basically start up for each of the different sources, like the directors startup volume setting, I can check next time I’m in the car though, I think I set everything to none so it didn’t adjust anything on start up except for master which I set to -30db from memory

so I adjust all the three sources to full and just use the master volume to adjust volume overall of whichever source I use

 

You are Correct. Those are the startup volume settings for each input.

And the Subwoofer setting will shorten the range for lower volume to the loudest. So according to the picture the sub volume will range from -10dB to 0dB.

 

Sometimes i thing Helx DSPs are far ahead of other brands DSPs...is there any brand that can compete...

 

The only thing I can think of that helix doesn't beat is the dirac auto tune in the minidsp. But, it has the advantage in every other regard. Outside of that, I dont think anyone stacks up. I think i like Mosconi's controllers a hair more though, but they aren't as flexible.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

I tried out the auto time alignment today just for giggles and it was ridiculously off. Probably user error, but I tried it a few times.

I wish there were better instructions because I don't really understand what to really do. I set my midrange as the measured distance anchor point on the left hand side.

I used the Audiofrog mic, but maybe the Umik would be better suited.

Perhaps the Helix doesn't like the eq settings on the channels and then time aligning after.

Nevertheless, I am sure someone will chime in who knows how to use it and provide me with a dunce hat.

 

I'd also be interested to hear from someone who has successfully implemented the Auto Time Alignment.
I haven't tried it (yet)... but I'm curious to see how accurate it is.

 

Can we get a little tutorial on how to do auto eq right? Also how do you use the wifi for tuning?

 

You connect the laptop to helix via WiFi. Open the software and change it from usb to WiFi. After that tuning is all the same and done from a laptop.

 

I tried autotune last night and it worked perfect. I chose he delay option not the distance so no numbers had to be input. Hit shift+T then a screen pops up. There is an option to use left midbass or right midbass for reference. I left it at the left midbass option.
Then make sure there is a red X next to every speaker you plan on auto aligning. There won’t be an option to check or Uncheck the reference channel.
Play the time align track, turn up the volume with all speakers playing the popping sounds and make sure the indicator for the volume is in the green.
Now hit start.
It will tell you what it is testing.
You will hear slight changes in the pop sounds when it is testing different speakers. After a few minutes all the new delays will populate and be added.

I must add I am having issues with the software. First time trying the auto time I thought it did a horrible job. Only to realize that it had placed a check in one of the speakers HP filters bypassing it. Reenabled it and it was perfect image. More focused than I’ve ever heard it.

Second issue with the software update is a major issue. After updating and auto time alignment I restart my car and there is insane amount of engine noise, whine and even turning on the AC created more noise. I went to bed wanting to rip out all the car audio and walk away from the hobby.
This morning first thing I started the car and it was still bad. So I reverted back to the previous software and it was dead quiet.
Loaded the tune which is yet another issue. Loading a tune would not place the name in the 1-10 slot list. It would show loaded with no name. So have to rename the tune in its slot and save it as a new file. Then all is good.
Played it while driving to gas station Start car back up and the insane engine noise is back. Went they the entire process of loading the old software again and saving and renaming. And noise is gone. For some reason The new software is making crazy engine noise happen. Doesn’t even seem possible that it could make that happen but it does.
what Is the ACO driver? Because it updates this also after the software. Maybe it’s the aco driver that’s bad. I revert both back to the previous to rid the engine noise

 

Yeah, I've learned to wait a few weeks before using new Helix software updates (in fact I never even updated to the last significant update because I had issues when I initially tried and ended up reverting back since the new version was mainly for the Ultra). They usually end up releasing an update to address some significant issues pretty quickly...

 

I tried the auto time alignment and it was spot on in about 15 seconds, I like to do my own eq so I didn’t try the auto tune and my car is hybrid so I can’t comment on the engine noise issue

 

Did you use distance or delay? Wondering how close it was to your measurements ?

 

Are you all (auto) time aligning the subwoofer with it as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I don’t have subs installed yet but I’ll have them in by next weekend

 

I tried it today and while I'm unsure if it's perfect, it definitely chose better timings than I had. A/B with my mode switch between my TA and its TA, its TA was better.

I had a hard time even getting it to pull up the automated TA window. Finally came up when I clicked on the RTA tab. I did the measurement and listened for a bit, liking what I heard except my passenger midbass seemed too quiet, so I looked and sure enough it said it was about 20" difference from my mid and tweeter which are next to it in the kick panel. I tried to pull the auto TA panel again to remeasure that channel and I couldn't get it to pull up.

CTRL+T right?

 

I tried it today and while I'm unsure if it's perfect, it definitely chose better timings than I had. A/B with my mode switch between my TA and its TA, its TA was better.

I had a hard time even getting it to pull up the automated TA window. Finally came up when I clicked on the RTA tab. I did the measurement and listened for a bit, liking what I heard except my passenger midbass seemed too quiet, so I looked and sure enough it said it was about 20" difference from my mid and tweeter which are next to it in the kick panel. I tried to pull the auto TA panel again to remeasure that channel and I couldn't get it to pull up.

CTRL+T right?

shift + t

 

Tried it again using the delay only, click track in the middle of the "good" area etc. Oddly it puts my midrange out of phase in my a pillar. If I flip the polarity (electrically) it seems to be ok and stages somewhat close to what I had using the tape measure, rta phase checks, and tone bursts. Just found it odd that it did a of phase change with the delay.
Setup is a Brax Ml1 and focal 3w2 in the pillars, morel admw10 in the door, and 2 Audiomobile evos in the trunk to a psix mk2.

Unless you are grossly mis-measuring with a tape measure, I can't see it being that much better tbh. Nevertheless, I would still like to hear what others are experiencing because it sounds like it works just fine?

 

Tried it again using the delay only, click track in the middle of the "good" area etc. Oddly it puts my midrange out of phase in my a pillar. If I flip the polarity (electrically) it seems to be ok and stages somewhat close to what I had using the tape measure, rta phase checks, and tone bursts. Just found it odd that it did a of phase change with the delay.
Setup is a Brax Ml1 and focal 3w2 in the pillars, morel admw10 in the door, and 2 Audiomobile evos in the trunk to a psix mk2.

Unless you are grossly mis-measuring with a tape measure, I can't see it being that much better tbh. Nevertheless, I would still like to hear what others are experiencing because it sounds like it works just fine?

even a small .03ms in either direction can change the way it sounds. Just Measuring and inputting those numbers isn’t going to get you exact.
When I did A/B between auto and my time alignment it was more focused.
The difference between Auto TA and mine was
left tweet +.02 right +.07
Left mid +.12 right +.04
Left midbass +.11

 

If you read the Audiofrog Tuning Guide, it explains (and shows) why you should use a tape measure to set time delay distances - set it and forget it. Adjusting the delays a little at a time will just cause you to end up with some frequencies that are centered, but all others won't be - and/or cancellation issues. Again, the guide explains and shows what happens with actual sound measurements to help illustrate. You use levels to adjust center image, not time alignment.

Sound travels at the speed of sound - which is why measurements are always correct for setting time alignment.

Read the section labeled "Setting Delays". It's not wrong (just as the tape measure isn't wrong).

Here is a link to the tuning guide in case you haven't already seen it:

https://testgear.audiofrog.com/wp-c...3/A-Straightforward-Stereo-Tuning-Process-and-Some-Notes-About-Why-it-Works.pdf

 

If you read the Audiofrog Tuning Guide, it explains (and shows) why you should use a tape measure to set time delay distances - set it and forget it. Adjusting the delays a little at a time will just cause you to end up with some frequencies that are centered, but all others won't be - and/or cancellation issues. Again, the guide explains and shows what happens with actual sound measurements to help illustrate. You use levels to adjust center image, not time alignment.

Sound travels at the speed of sound - which is why measurements are always correct for setting time alignment.

Read the section labeled "Setting Delays". It's not wrong (just as the tape measure isn't wrong).

Here is a link to the tuning guide in case you haven't already seen it:

https://testgear.audiofrog.com/wp-c...3/A-Straightforward-Stereo-Tuning-Process-and-Some-Notes-About-Why-it-Works.pdf

The idea is you are not very accurate using a tape measure.

 

Again, if you read that guide, you will see you don't even need to be that accurate to begin with!

Besides, are you really keeping your head perfectly still as you drive around? Of course you aren't. You don't need the level of accuracy that you think you do for time alignment. Again, it's all spelled out very well in that guide, from a true expert in the field. Don't take my word for it - I'm not an expect - I just know when to listen to the experts!

He even shows how measurement errors won't make any difference with a midbass speaker, for example - he even purposely uses a 6" measurement error on purpose to illustrate it. Again, he even shows the measurements - and you can easily recreate the test in your own car if you don't believe the expert.

Obviously, feel free to do whatever you feel works best for you, but at least read what an expert says on the subject...

 

Again, if you read that guide, you will see you don't even need to be that accurate to begin with!

Besides, are you really keeping your head perfectly still as you drive around? Of course you aren't. You don't need the level of accuracy that you think you do for time alignment. Again, it's all spelled out very well in that guide, from a true expert in the field. Don't take my word for it - I'm not an expect - I just know when to listen to the experts!

He even shows how measurement errors won't make any difference with a midbass speaker, for example - he even purposely uses a 6" measurement error on purpose to illustrate it. Again, he even shows the measurements - and you can easily recreate the test in your own car if you don't believe the expert.

Obviously, feel free to do whatever you feel works best for you, but at least read what an expert says on the subject...

But we're not time aligning a bandpassed bass signal. We're talking about the entire signal. I think you're taking the lesson a bit out of context.

I don't know about you but once I got a DSP it changed my driving posture. I tried to tune it for my "slump towards the center of the car head nearly centered" posture that I developed to get the most sound of my old installs... But that just didn't work. I absolutely peg my head to the back of the seat when I really want to hear a track. Sometimes I'll get a nasty reflection and I'll reposition my head just to be sure it's not audible when my head is against the headrest. So yeah my head does move around a lot. But it's not swaying 6 inches side to side when I'm driving down the highway... go ahead and try it at the computer, you'll feel like a bobblehead. We've got these things called necks full of muscle that keep our heads from bobbling around.

If I drop my head 3 inches i fall directly inline with the reflection of the wideband off the windshield and the response above 10k increases dramatically. It's so bad that if I'm driving and experiencing listening fatigue it's 7/10 times that I'm slouched in the seat and sitting right in that high frequency reflection. I can sit tall in my seat and return to quality listening. I'm not willing to just 'ignore' those 3 inches because a 200hz signal isn't impacted by that.

 

Like I said - do whatever works for you. I'm just relaying the information from someone that knows way more about this stuff that any of us ever will. Use the information how you see fit.

Me, I'm constantly moving my head around while driving - turning it left and right, looking up and down, etc. A few mm of time alignment difference won't mean squat to me.

The midbass was just an example (since that is the example that Andy uses). Like he says in summary:

So what does all of this mean? It means that you should use the tape measure carefully. Measure from the grilles or the dust caps of each speaker to the microphone. Get as close as you can. Input the right numbers and your results will be great. There are other ways to measure, but none are necessarily more accurate and none are as quick and simple. Once you’ve set your delays to correctly compensate for distance, leave them alone. They aren’t wrong.

 

Like I said - do whatever works for you. I'm just relaying the information from someone that knows way more about this stuff that any of us ever will. Use the information how you see fit.

Me, I'm constantly moving my head around while driving - turning it left and right, looking up and down, etc. A few mm of time alignment difference won't mean squat to me.

The midbass was just an example (since that is the example that Andy uses). Like he says in summary:

So what does all of this mean? It means that you should use the tape measure carefully. Measure from the grilles or the dust caps of each speaker to the microphone. Get as close as you can. Input the right numbers and your results will be great. There are other ways to measure, but none are necessarily more accurate and none are as quick and simple. Once you’ve set your delays to correctly compensate for distance, leave them alone. They aren’t wrong.

Its either one of two things:
1. Your l/r response is wrong which leads you to mess with time alignment. It lines up certain frequencies better because they are not matched in response.
2. You mismeasured.

Perhaps you should rethink your eq l/r response. The above is most definitely correct from Andy.

 

All I know is I trust my ears a lot (generally, we all have off days)
I found small differences in the distance are very good noticeable (in home audio!, I dont have a dsp in my car yet but want to buy the Dsp.3)

Everything matters in your install and setup wether its in a car or at home... you are trying to perfect the reproduction of the sound. Sooo many things matter in here...

Also in a setup thats very good balanced its even better noticeable...

And its person-dependend... which is okay cuz we all have diferent ears, and training.

When I showed a very good friend of mine who was building loudspeakers for more than 40 years that a few millimeters in distance and later also a 0,2 ohm raise in a resistor is hearable (or isnt that English...) he just couldnt hear it!... and he has heard a lot AND has well trained ears... and a good set!

And another friend of mine, he could hear the differences! Both times...

I assume in a car it matters too, even a small distance.

Btw not everything is displayed in measurements... you can hear small differences soundwise where in the measurements its barely shown...

Anyway, auto allignment seems like a good feature (when ur mic is set correctly of course)....
👍

 

Well it is interesting indeed... because as I recall when only having bass a bit further or closer in my 3 way with separate enclosures at home, it was hearable.... absolutely.

But maybe in the car where you sit almost on top and in between your drivers, maybe with the bass it isnt that much noticeable. But mids and highs yes...

 

We are definitely on the same page. I also came from home audio.

 

are you guys doing the auto TA after you eq? are your levels matched?

 

Yes after eq. Once each driver is eq’d to the target curve the levels will be matched.

 

Auto feature is nice but why people give time aligment so much unnecessary attention?!
Tape measure, few test tones and its done.
Are you deaf, so you need impulse response and some auto tuning?
that kind of measurements probably never gets you on spot only near...

so much arguing for easiest thing in tuning that doesn’t require special ears and measurement tools....

 

Auto feature is nice but why people give time aligment so much unnecessary attention?!
Tape measure, few test tones and its done.
Are you deaf, so you need impulse response and some auto tuning?
that kind of measurements probably never gets you on spot only near...

so much arguing for easiest thing in tuning that doesn’t require special ears and measurement tools....

Phase measurements get subs/midbass/mids perfect and the tape measure would often be out... tweeters are harder due to the short wavelength

for example sometimes a bigger delay and a phase inversion will make a better job of aligning phase... you’d never get to the settings in my car with a tape alone, crossover interaction, phase issues and driver phase characteristics all play a part in getting time alignment very accurate

I will demonstrate this very soon in my own car in great detail over on car audio junkies...

to get phase coherence does not nesc follow the tape measure, keep thinking like that and you won’t get any better, and I’m not speaking hypothetically, I am speaking from experience and actual scientific measurements

watch this space... you will have your eyes opened and realise the sweeping statement you just made is just that...