Stop asking SUB questions... GOD...






























lol

 

I'll say it like this, I don't know anyone who's EVER gone down a size and been happy. We're like women that way.

 

we have similar cars and similar midbass drivers. i'm waiting for my 10" to arrive to replace the 12"(very similar to the 12w7)[yes, i've run a 12w7] ported i have.

maybe it's something in the air or something.

or something...

 

Is the W7 Vented or sealed? Will you be runnig the W6 Vented or sealed?

 

w7 is vented. Approximately 2 cubes, and tuned to 28hz (give or take).

I'd run the w6 sealed.

 

2 10w6's in correctly sized enclosures should sound damn good... I doubt you would miss anything, plus you would have your trunk real estate back. Sounds like the win win! I'm getting ready to buy a fiberglass enclosure for my trunk, I wish I had the skill to do one. Just asking how hard is it... any DIY tutorials on it?

 

These are my impressions of the 10w6v2, in the "JL Optimised" sealed enclosure (built by the lovely Mr. Marv).

The 10w6 has very good low end extension. Like.. really low.. I don't know how much lower the 12w7 goes, I assume quite a bit though, so you will probably loose your super ridiculous sub bass extension a bit.

The 10w6 is very clean, but doesn't have a LOT of output. In my hatch, I consider it acceptable for general audio, and excellent for songs with nice low end. (I'm running it off a PDX 1.600 at conservative output levels). A single 12w7 is going to way outperform two 10w6 woofers though...

Honestly though... I don't know why you would want to downsize, you're just going to regret it. You wont pick up any noticeable SQ gain, and you will loose output and low end. Other then the space you will pick up, you're loosing in all other respects.

 

Honestly though... I don't know why you would want to downsize, you're just going to regret it. You wont pick up any noticeable SQ gain, and you will loose output and low end. Other then the space you will pick up, you're loosing in all other respects.

You are totally going to miss the output IMHO.

Yeah , avented 12" sub to a sealed 10" sub [ identical output ], you won't even notice

I see praises of the w6's all day. I even see where some people say the w6 will outperform the w7. I honestly don't know why they say that, or if they're going off opinion rather than experience. I personally believe that the w7 would get lower and handle more power doing so. But, I would get some space back... I think another concern is the additional weight in the trunk. I just got 'the itch' to try something new. But, I suspect this is one move I'd regret.

Thus the reason I asked.

 

Yeah , avented 12" sub to a sealed 10" sub [ identical output ], you won't even notice

 

try the fiber glass forums

 

Why...there are enough links on this site to make a simple fiberglass enclosure.

 

don't take into account the car we're talking about or how we like our music to sound or the genres of music we listen to or anything.

hey chad, why don't you have a ported 12" if it has more output than a 10"?

 

I have a ported 10 in a SMALL hatchback, A W7 will not fit and after looking around I found that going to a vented Dayton 12Ho will net me next to nothing other than a loss of space. Trust me... I DID look into the idea many times. I also have the vent as close to a boundary as I could get it, this helps. I even dreamed of the 8W7 or a JBL GTI 10" but they are too deep, I have no reservations about predicting that either of those subs would stomp the living daylights out of the Dayton 10"

Honestly I'm not that loud of a listener, I require the rig to do what my live rigs do, around 120dB at my position, a single 10 in a hatch will do that and do it well with a mind-bending 250W rated. Now, if we were talking about a vehicle other than my mouse-car it would be a different story. How many threads are on here about "I put a single 10 in my escalade and it don't have enough output?"

If I HAD a 12" of the performance of the W7, felt that I was happy with it and I was really using it to it's full potential there would be no way in hell I would go to a sealed 10". Unless I drastically changed my listening habbits or altered the laws of physics

Honestly it's a matter of application and what fits the listener's taste, which taste is something we cannot predict here, even if you know the guy/gal.

Chad

 

with a normal vented setup for most people it would be a huge change. however, if you have contoured the W7 setup to be balanced (ie: no peaks) with the use of eq, then going to a w6 shouldn't be much different as long as you realize you will lose LOTS of output. this is pretty unlikely though since most normal people wouldn't eq out what they gain from a vented enclosure.

if you want to enter a realm of more realistic subbass reproduction i would definitely switch drivers (at least enclosure) because a 12W7 is very bottom heavy and bloated in a normal "plug and play" car setup, especially vented.

 

with a normal vented setup for most people it would be a huge change. however, if you have contoured the W7 setup to be balanced (ie: no peaks) with the use of eq, then going to a w6 shouldn't be much different as long as you realize you will lose LOTS of output. this is pretty unlikely though since most normal people wouldn't eq out what they gain from a vented enclosure.

if you want to enter a realm of more realistic subbass reproduction i would definitely switch drivers (at least enclosure) because a 12W7 is very bottom heavy and bloated in a normal "plug and play" car setup, especially vented.

exactly!

 

i sold my 12w7 when i realised i never used it to its full potential, prolly only used 30% of it typically, i got a DIYMA 12" now and love it, but wonder if i will kill it on a bass heavy session?

how much space you gonna save 1.5 cubes? = nada.

my 12w7 could shake my mini van VIOLENTLY @ 40 hz, i just dont need that anymore,

im all grown up.

my latest thought is to get a 15" so i can switch out subs depending on mood

super sq / monster bumpin

why dont you get a 10, keep the w7, if the 10 aint eough you still gots the w7.

 

Guys, note that my sub is tuned pretty dang low. When I modeled the response curve of the box/sub it went down pretty far before hitting rolloff.

I then had to attenuate the 45-50hz region with the EQ thanks to cabin gain. Right now, everythign sounds very good.

Like the OP said, do you guys think it's going to be enough to miss it though? I do agree with you, Chad, in that I'll be having to put the gain back pretty high. Right now I'm probably only giving the 12w7 600w rms, with enough room for 1000w rms.

One thing I really need to take into account (from a financial viewpoint) is the money I'm losing. If I do go with a different setup and get rid of the 12w7 I'm really going to be taking a drastic hit. It might even come down to the point where selling it isn't worth it, and hanging onto it for a future SUV is going to be the case.

 

The sub should be tuned to give you a nice response with no peaks, weird dips or phase response issues. Be it high or low. Tuning higher woiuld give you a street thumper peak at the tuning freq.

Think about this, it's easy. A vent is going to give you a peak at it's tuning freq..... now model a sealed box. If you put that peak before the system rolls off you will have a peak, but if you strategically place the peak in a way such that it augments and extends the point before the system rolls off and reatins a flat response out to the rolloff you have dun good You are moving the peak down, think of it as lowering the freq on a parametric EQ boost, or how An integrator works in a sense. you are using an acoustical boost to compensate for the rolloff and gain extension.

 

OK, the red trace is the enclosure you have now, the green is a larger enclosure that would give you the best extension as per Win ISD The "green box" is over twice the size

See your peak?

Now to avoid the peak in a 2 Cu Ft box you would have to tune at 20 cycles, this would net you a LOSS from where you are now from 25 cycles up thru your passband. In an anechoic environment you are literally choking the 12W7 in a 2 Cu Ft box, it wants ideally 4.2 CuFt tuned at 22 cycles to make the green graph.

There's the "blooming/bloated" low end you are talking about ladies

 

OK, the red trace is the enclosure you have now, the green is a larger enclosure that would give you the best extension as per Win ISD The "green box" is over twice the size

There's the "blooming/bloated" low end you are talking about ladies

I went through so many ideas/designs on winISD for my current box, and wound up picking the best compromise. After using the EQ it made a world of difference. Cabin gain is a mother ********!

FWIW, I've never noticed a bloated low end.

 

Yellow is 10W7 2 cubes tuned to 22 cycles, it pretty much does bettar than the 12 in the same space
We can't preach driver /VS/ application enough here eh?

 

Well, since I'm asking about the 10w6, what about a comparison of that to the 12w7?

This will pretty much be what I"m running:
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_stealthbox_detail.php?fit_id=1598

Can't find any airpsace info though. Maxorz has nearly the same setup. I'll ask him about how much space he's got.
Edit: He's got about 1 ft^3 sealed...

 

great advise. although in a 1cf the w7 will be a pretty high q alignment (doubtful you'll hear the difference in a car after eq) it will actually be pretty balanced to begin with.

 

Orange is your current setup, yellow is a 10W6v2 in a 1CuFt sealed (stil pretty large to glass in a wheel-well )

W7 tromps it in output

 

That's true, and the picture doesn't show the half of it. The relative SPL from the alignment change is higher with bikinpunk's current setup as you can see in the above pic, but the absolute SPL will be far, far higher with the W7 in any case.

Furthermore, I would say you will be pushing the 10" to it's limits, which is bad for SQ. More likely you will be pushing a single 10 quite a bit past its limits. The W7 is comfortably within limits, and can handle the heavy stuff too when you need it.

W7 = better SQ in this case, I think. If you've had the W7 (in a vented enclosure, no less) for awhile, my suspicion is that you have gotten accustomed to it, and I think you're gonna notice the weakness of a single or even dual 10w6 setup in contrast. Something similar happened to me when I tried going from 8s to 6.5s in midbass, several years ago.

 

that and the powerhandling will be reduced... which is not something the average w7 owner will understand/know and end up blowing the driver.

 

Does the W7 give you mechanical "warning" before it shreads itself?

 

Damn, that curve is flat.

 

I prefer the w6v2 to the w7 any day so to me I'd switch cause I think the sound of the w6 is more qualitative

 

well then i'm an idiot for taking into consideration things such as cabin gain, surrounding materials, distance of driver to listener, amplification, and things like that. it's all void because the graph says so. i'm not trying to be hard headed, but....

i'm not saying what you've posted isn't correct either but it's very generic to me. application and listening preference dictates graphs and specs. and if i'm completely wrong, see first 5 words of this post.

and if interested, i will let you know my experience from going from a 12" ported to a 10" sealed in a 2002 civic. real world, no graphs. naaaa...no one cares anyway. (see first five words again..)

 

I completely understand what you're saying. The biggest factor in this is cabin gain... but I know that I've read that going sealed cuts out cabin gain. Is this true?... why/how?



Man, this thread alone has sparked about 3 ideas for new threads...

 

I've never done IB, but can only imagine the thickness of the baffle needed to support a 12w7.

 

i dropped the idea of going with 8's 10's ib.

but i just thought i'd chime in because like i said, we have similar cars, similar midbass and very similar sub stage. that's all. sorry if i'm wrong.

as it is now, you CAN NOT tell i have a sub. sounds like all the freq below 60hz come from a woofer behind the HU. seriously.

 

I've own a W7 and currently own 2 w6v2's as well. Sold the W7 some time ago, and never looked back. W6's make me smile in the upper bass regions

 

I've seen what he has said to people wanting to do that. But I would think of all people and places who would have tried all possible alignments with a product, it would be the company who made it.

 

Jason,

Normally I'd agree, but the manufacturer of today chooses enclosure sizes and tuning frequencies to please the market.

The market is not you & I, SQ purists...sadly. It's aimed at entry to mid-fi ears at best...emphasis on exagerrated low end.

Best case scenario is their #s are a starting point.

 

A 12W7 to a 10W6 is an upgrade in SQ of far greater importance than any loss of output.

I can't understand how there are so many W7 fans on this board....it's not a good subwoofer guys.

Come on.

 

I'd thoroughly disagree with this assessment, although admittedly the W6v2 has a more balanced sound.